Aidan
00:00:07 – 00:00:46
Hello and welcome to episode 18 of the Ideal Nutrition podcast. Today, we are going to be talking about evidence-based supplements for athletes. We’re probably gonna do this as a two-part kind of episode, or two episodes, because we’re gonna try and cover a lot. So, we don’t want to make it too long, and we’re also only really going to focus on evidence-based supplements. We’re only going to focus on supplements that are going to really help performance or have the potential to help performance. We’re not really going to talk about anything that probably doesn’t really help or anything like that. I really want to stay positive on this and just focus on the things that we can do to help improve performances. Um, did you want to hit things off, Leah? What are we starting with?
Leah
00:00:46 – 00:01:31
Let’s start with creatine. So, based on our episode on creatine, I think that it’s pretty obvious that we’re both massive fans of utilising this supplement. I think it’s one of the supplements that really can move the needle for performance and for muscle building, um, and a lot of other different things. So, creatine itself can be utilised across a range of different sports. Um, so obviously we’re lifters so that is what we would take it for, and it’s very beneficial when we’re thinking of any kind of strength sports. Um, but it can be useful in any sport that has kind of those short bursts of high intensity exercise. So, it could be combat athletes, it could be sprinters, um, but it could even have secondary benefits for people doing endurance sports.
Leah
00:01:31 – 00:01:57
So, it can definitely have a range of different applications. Um, when it comes to creatine and what it actually does, uh, it basically allows for you to have more, um, creatine phosphate in your system. So, what that then allows is for a production of ATP in the muscle. That is better than if you’re not taking creatine as a supplement, and then ATP is then used for energy production.
Leah
00:01:58 – 00:02:38
So, it is useful in that way and the biggest thing about creatine is you want to take it consistently. So, you want to do your 3 to 5 grams every single day and let it build up in the muscle. So, it’s not about the acute effect that it has on performance, but more or less how you take it over time. So once again, consistency is the most important there. You can do fast loading and slow loading protocols when you do first start taking creatine. So, slow loading would just be going straight to that maintenance dose of 3 to 5 grams per day, anytime of the day. Um, and then fast loading would be taking 20 to 25 grams a day for 5 to 7 days.
Leah
00:02:38 – 00:03:10
So that it builds up in the muscle at a faster rate so you’re able to have that performance benefit. Um, pros and cons to both; cons of the fast loading is it is a little bit hard to do because you do have to break up that 20 to 25 gram dose over four doses over the day in order to avoid gastrointestinal distress. Um, but you do get the benefit quicker and you—in terms of, you get it in 5 to 7 days. Um, but you can do the slow loading, and you’d still get the same benefit over kind of your 4 to 5 weeks.
Aidan
00:03:10 – 00:03:13
Awesome. Pretty good summary. It’s hard to summarise creatine and-
Leah
00:03:13 – 00:03:22
It really is because it does so much, like we did a whole episode on it. But that’s kind of like it in a nutshell, and that’s how I would usually describe it to clients.
Aidan
00:03:22 – 00:04:04
Yeah, for sure. So, then the next one I’m gonna talk about is protein powder. Um, the way I view protein powder is it’s not magical. It’s really a convenient way to get what is often a high-quality source of protein. So, there’s a few ways I view it in terms of, if you’re struggling to reach your protein needs, or on any individual day you’re lacking in protein or anything like that, or you want to time your protein. So, we know timing of protein is not super, super important, but still does matter a little bit. So, say you wanted something around the time of your workout, either pre-workout or post-workout, protein powder could be a great option for that. Um, whey protein is the gold standard, but there’s a lot of other protein powders that are still pretty good.
Aidan
00:04:04 – 00:04:17
Like, I suppose you could talk more about the vegan ones but, like, I’m a big believer in either soy protein or something that is like a combination of multiple sources like rice protein or pea protein. Anything else you’d think about from, like, a vegan protein powder?
Leah
00:04:17 – 00:04:32
They’re my two go-to’s when I usually work with plant-based people is either your soy protein isolate, or your pea and rice protein blends. I do happen to prefer soy protein isolate just a little bit more because the research for it in terms of muscle building is a little bit better.
Aidan
00:04:32 – 00:04:50
Yeah, yeah, cool. So, yeah, so like protein powder is just something that’s a convenient way of getting your protein in. It’s nothing magical, like, there is a lot of people who are really big on, like, if you have a workout, but you don’t have your protein shake directly after you’re not going to make any gains. Like it’s nothing magical like that. You don’t need that, but it is a convenient source that can be useful for a lot of people.
Leah
00:04:52 – 00:05:12
And next one would be caffeine. So obviously, caffeine is something that a lot of different people use in a lot of different sports and outside of sport and use it for relatively similar reasons. Um, in terms of who can use caffeine, I’d say any athlete, would you—there’s no athlete you’d say caffeine is not gonna be potentially useful for you?
Aidan
00:05:12 – 00:05:13
Not really any sports—
Leah
00:05:13 – 00:05:39
Nothing specifically like it would cover such a broad range of sports and a broad range of people. The only time I would say that it would be ineffective to use caffeine is if it is—if it’s—you’re someone where it interrupts your sleep, and then you’re not getting adequate recovery through lack of sleep then caffeine is probably not for you. And that might be dependent on the times of the day that you end up training. Like, if you’re training at night-time, you may not want to overload on the caffeine prior to bed.
Leah
00:05:39 – 00:06:20
But in terms of what caffeine actually does, it affects the central nervous system. So, when we’re talking about sport, it basically allows the perception of pain and effort to be reduced. So, I’m sure everyone’s had that experience where they’ve had a bunch of caffeine, gone to the gym, and you just feel better, you just get a better workout in. Um, I don’t think there’s really any denying that that happens at a certain point. But a secondary thing with caffeine is that if you take enough of it, it can somewhat actually make you stronger or more powerful for a short period of time. So, it can improve muscle contractions, um, leading to more enhanced motor recruitment.
Leah
00:06:20 – 00:06:51
So, if you take enough caffeine and go do a good training session you may be able to lift more than if you had no caffeine at all. Um, so in terms of how much you actually want to take? We’d say 3 to 6 milligrams per kilo of body weight, um, is the range. The lower end of that, you’re going to get more of the—like, the mental acuity, the reduced perception of effort, and then on the higher end of that, that’s when you see those more performance-based benefits from caffeine.
Aidan
00:06:51 – 00:06:55
Yeah and, like, that’s actually a pretty high one when you do that—when you actually do the maths on it, like—
Leah
00:06:55 – 00:06:56
It’s a lot of caffeine.
Aidan
00:06:56 – 00:07:04
Yeah, like for context, like, let’s use a 100 kg powerlifter as an example. If we went to the top range of that, we’re looking at 600 milligrams.
Leah
00:07:04 – 00:07:05
Yeah.
Aidan
00:07:05 – 00:07:15
500 ml Monster has 160 milligrams. So, it’s like there’s a lot of people who will be like, oh can’t I just have a coffee before I train? Will that solve it? And how much caffeine is in a cup of coffee?
Leah
00:07:16 – 00:07:31
It can really depend on the coffee that you’re using. So, um, there was a study done on the Gold Coast by Ben Desbrow that found that, like, caffeine in espresso can range from, like, 25 to 200 milligrams in one shot of espresso.
Aidan
00:07:31 – 00:07:32
That’s insane.
Leah
00:07:32 – 00:07:39
So, that’s a huge range. So, if you’re relying on coffee, and you don’t know much how much caffeine is actually in that that can be a really hard thing to dose.
Aidan
00:07:39 – 00:08:10
Yeah, like I typically call it, like, 80 to 100 but because that study from Ben—like its really kind of shook me because it’s kind of like—and this was ages ago I read that study, but it shook me because it’s like well if you’re aiming for 600 milligrams and you’re significantly off in your dosing that could mess you up. You could go—like you could be, like, eight milligrams per kilo or something like that. So, it’s kind of scary, but it’s something to think about. Like when we’re doing really high doses of caffeine, I actually like supplemental forms, like no dose or energy drinks or pre-workout just because we know what we’re getting.
Aidan
00:08:10 – 00:08:24
If you’re just doing it for the kind of hype-you-up benefit, reduced, um, perceived effort, all of those things, coffee is probably gonna work. But if you’re trying to really push the needle in terms of optimising performance, it probably makes sense to be a little bit more clinical about it and, like, know what you’re having. Yeah.
Leah
00:08:24 – 00:08:54
Yeah, it is a very individual thing as well. So, whilst we have that range, you might find that you get a good performance benefit at a slightly lower dose. Um, and maybe you don’t have to go all the way to that six milligrams per kilo which is a lot. I know our colleague, Tyler, he, like, plays a lot with this and he goes right up to that dosage, um, and he’s a big guy, so he would be taking on a lot of caffeine. Um and I think something like that (a) it would, like, send my anxiety crazy, and (b) I think it would just—it would be too much.
Aidan
00:08:54 – 00:09:31
Yeah, and, like, I’ve played around with it because I’m like, well, that’s what the research shows, like, I’m obviously going to try it, and, like, I don’t think it was more beneficial for me than lower dosages. Like, I just think the negatives start to outweigh the positives at that stage, um, but super, super individual. Um, next thing we’re gonna talk about is citrulline malate. I’m not massive on this one. Like it’s—it’s not anywhere near as, um, positive as all the other ones, but it can still help. So, the main way it helps is through vasodilation. It allows blood to flow more easily. That’s what the citrulline aspect does.
Aidan
00:09:32 – 00:10:06
Um, basically, citrulline converts to arginine, um, that then promotes nitric oxide and that, like, translates to that. So improved blood flow, like, this is a bad example, but, like, it’s almost like a poor man’s blood doping. Like I was thinking like Lance Armstrong, stuff like that, like, it’s kind of like—it’s that on a low, low scale. So, like, when we’re looking at endurance athletes, it’s useful for that obviously. For lifters, there’s a small boost in high rep sets like if you’re doing a set of 20 or anything—any exercise that you’d get a pump, the feeling of a pump, it’s probably going to help you on that exercise.
Aidan
00:10:07 – 00:10:40
So, small benefit, but, like, it’s not as consistent as you’d think. Like a lot of the early studies that were really positive on it weren’t really, like, relevant for how we normally life. Like most people will do a set of 10, or something like that, then wait two or three minutes, then do another set or whatever. Whereas a lot of the early studies were doing, like, one minute rest periods and stuff like that, which, like, for muscle growth does not seem to be optimal. But even in those studies, there’s one study that came out rel—over the last two years on German volume training but like 10 by 10. So, super high volume, they only use one minute rest periods, that’s where you’d expect citrulline malate to shine and it didn’t have a good result.
Aidan
00:10:40 – 00:11:19
So, it’s like—| don’t know, it’s pretty mixed, but the mechanism makes sense. There is positive research, like, the research is slightly leaning in favour of it being positive. Um, the malate side of things helps with—it helps with creatine as well, like, creating creatine phosphate, like, it helps with ATP regeneration I should say, um, so it helps from that perspective. And the other thing that’s kind of relevant beyond improved performance which we’re not even—for reference we are not even sure it is actually translating to improve muscle growth like better pumps and ability to do higher reps sets to a better capacity, doesn’t actually necessarily translate to better muscle growth. Um, one thing we do know, though, is in a lot of the research, it seems to reduce delayed onset muscle soreness.
Aidan
00:11:19 – 00:11:40
People seem to get less sore, and it’s like right up there with some of the best strategies we’ve got for reducing that. Like it’s not going to—like if you haven’t trained for ages and you go in and do a really high-volume work out, like, you’re gonna get sore no matter what, but it seems to help, and that’s a combination of something to do with clearance of ammonia. And there was also a complex mechanism related to the nitric oxide and blood flow and stuff like that. I was gonna try and repeat it,
Aidan
00:11:40 – 00:12:01
But, like, I was getting confused reading it and, like, I do understand the mechanism but, like, there’s no way I can say this, like, simply. Um if anyone’s interested in taking that, it’s only in acute benefits, not something that builds up in the system over time like creatine. So, it’s like 6 to 8 grams of it—um, of citrulline malate, it’s not just citrulline, so 6 to 8 grams of it and that’s 30 to 120 minutes before training.
Leah
00:12:01 – 00:12:03
Is it something that you take personally?
Aidan
00:12:03 – 00:12:29
I do. I’m not sure how comfortable I feel publicly saying this, but, like—so one of the reasons why I take it is because of my knee injury, and other tendon issues. So, I have a lot of tendon issues, and we know that—if my theory on collagen—or not just my theory, but like if my—the way I understand how collagen works is accurate and we are going to talk about collagen later but, like, that mechanism requires blood flow. We know that tendons get significantly less blood flow than muscles,
Aidan
00:12:30 – 00:12:54
And we also know that if you’ve got, like, some mild, like, what you’d call tendonitis, like, a little bit of a flare-up and you get a sicker pump, it doesn’t hurt as much. So, like, that’s—that’s why I personally take it for a combination of that. Like, if it—I don’t care if it improves my performance at all but if it helps me get a better pump which then allows me to train better and recover better and all those kinds of things then that’s kind of my thoughts. I’m not massive on it. I’ve never actually recommended that to a client, but it’s something that I think about for myself.
Leah
00:12:54 – 00:13:33
Yeah, okay, interesting. All right, so next one I’m not super sold on, and that is sodium bicarbonate; like sodium bicarb, bicarb soda, whatever you want to call it. Um, we’ll get into why I’m not super sold on it, but we’ll go over what it’s useful for first. So, it could be a useful supplement when we’re talking about high intensity kind of endurance activity. So, things like CrossFit, anything where you’re trying to maintain a high level of intensity for a longer period of time and fatigue can set in. That’s where this supplement could be useful. Um, it could potentially be useful in lifters, particularly if you’re doing kind of higher reps sets, but also relatively intense.
Aidan
00:13:33 – 00:13:46
Yeah, I’d say anything where you feel like—like I hate this terminology because I know it’s not a hundred percent accurate, but anywhere you feel that kind of lactic acid build up, anything that’s like higher rep, really intense, that kind of feeling you’d associate with that, it should help with that.
Leah
00:13:46 – 00:14:35
Yeah. So, it buffers the—basically buffers the pH. So, as you exercise, you do get an increase in acidity in the body and in the muscles. Um, that just happens when you exercise because of the many physiological processes that are happening in the muscles, and bicarb can simply counteract this, um, and buffer that. So, the theory is that by doing that, by not allowing that build-up of acidity to occur, uh, it’s going to help with prolonging that feeling of, like, the burning muscles and fatigue. So, yeah, basically just helps with fatigue, um, and that burning sensation. So, you’re able to perform at higher intensities for a longer period of time, um, and there is research to show this, like this—obviously we’re talking about evidence-based supplements. We know that it does work to some extent.
Leah
00:14:36 – 00:15:22
It’s a little murky. Like I said looking into it, I’m not completely sold on its applications especially when you bring in, like, the cons of taking this supplement and how it’s actually taken. Um, so the best way to do it is to literally take bicarb soda. So, like, from, you know, that shelf in your cupboard where you have all your baking ingredients, and literally taking it like that in some water, um, and the issue gets even worse when we think about how much you actually need to take in order to get a performance benefit. Um, so we’re talking like 200 to 400 milligrams per kilo of body weight. Um, ideally, that would be with a small carb rich meal about 2 to 3 hours before exercise to get the best benefit out of it, but you’re thinking, like, that’s a lot of bicarb.
Leah
00:15:23 – 00:15:30
Yeah. So, like, going back to, like, the 100 kg athlete example, we are looking at 20 to 40 grams—
Leah
00:15:30 – 00:15:31
Grams of bicarb soda.
Aidan
00:15:30 – 00:16:00
Yeah, it’s a lot like 40 grams is—yeah, like, that’s the same as, like, if you get a large protein scoop. Like a large protein—a normal protein scoop is 30 grams so we’re, like, looking at a similar amount. It’s a lot yeah.
Leah
00:15:39 – 00:16:00
It’s a lot. So, imagine mixing that in water and drinking it a few hours before you’re actually going to compete or train, um, so there is a potential risk of gastrointestinal distress, um, I think that’s pretty obvious. I think if anyone was going to think, oh, I’m going to have all this bicarb soda, they’d kind of expect an upset stomach.
Aidan
00:16:00 – 00:16:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like if you didn’t know it was a performance enhancer, and you just thought about taking it, you’d probably assume—oh, it’s probably gonna make me feel sick, like—
Leah
00:16:07 – 00:16:31
Probably and you can split it up throughout, like, say, the 24 hours prior to your event or training in smaller doses which might be more manageable. But taking something, you know, pretty much on the hour every hour for a certain period of time, it’s pretty time consuming. Like the amount of effort, you would then give that for the benefit that you would get, I don’t know. I don’t know if it really weighs out.
Aidan
00:16:32 – 00:16:45
Yeah, and I guess we’re just talking about—I’ve been meaning to try it for ages. I still haven’t actually tried it, but partly because it’s just unappealing. Yeah, like, I want to try to see what it feels like so I can actually talk about it, like, more than just being like it seems unappealing, but, like, yeah, for sure.
Leah
00:16:45 – 00:17:01
And it is available in capsules, like, that is something that I did find, but the—again, the number of capsules you’d have to take of bicarb is a crazy amount. So, I just feel like logically, like, it’s just impractical although it may provide some benefit for some people.
Aidan
00:17:01 – 00:17:22
Yeah, and the way I view it as it makes sense. Like, for example, if you’re a CrossFit athlete and you’re going to the CrossFit games and you only compete occasionally or whatever and you’ve tried it out in training, and you know it feels good for you, you’re fine with it. Well, a hundred percent of course you’d take it, like, you’d do anything at that stage, um, but, like, when we’re talking about, like, it could help lifting, maybe, like, probably not.
Leah
00:17:22 – 00:17:23
Don’t know if I’m super sold in that context.
Aidan
00:17:23 – 00:18:09
Yeah. So, as we touched on earlier, we’re gonna talk about collagen now. So, who for? Basically, just anybody who has any musculoskeletal injury pretty much which makes up about 70% of injuries. So, we’re talking, like, tendon and ligament injuries basically, um, like, tendinopathy is the main one I think about it for, but, like, even stuff like if somebody’s torn their ACL and they’ve got, like, a six-to-twelve-month rehab ahead of them, like, maybe this will speed up the process. Um, basically, the mechanism is you have a decent amount of collagen, so, like, we’re talking like 15 to 25 grams, which is more than most supplements. So, 15 to 25 grams of collagen that mostly breaks down to the amino acids, about 10% remains intact as collagen peptides. And as—you take it pre-workout,
Aidan
00:18:09 – 00:18:37
And so, like, 40 to 60 minutes before the session, and as you do that session, you get blood flow to that area. So, we know tendons, for example, as I said, get less blood flow than muscles but they get some blood flow and that—the research has shown that that does lead to an increase in collagen synthesis in the injured area. We don’t have what I’d love to see in terms of like—okay, ACL rehabs normally take 9 to 12 months now they’re taking 6 to 12 because it’s like—we don’t have, like,
Aidan
00:18:38 – 00:19:18
Large sample size studies of that. We’ve got case studies of that. We’ve got individual cases, but it’s not a lot to go on, but that’s the way I’d go with it. The other thing to think about is obviously you also—well not obviously but you do also want to take it with vitamin C as well, or at least have some vitamin C rich food alongside that just because that’s involved in one of the enzymatic steps involved in collagen synthesis in the body. So, you kind of need it from that perspective. Um, once again, not a 100% sold on that, very open to changing my opinion on it, but it is something that’s—like, if we are onto something here, it can be a bit of a game changer, like, there’s certain—certain injuries where, like, other people often have MRIs long after becoming pain free,
Aidan
00:19:18 – 00:19:41
And the pathology of the injury is still there. And in a lot of these case studies, the pathology of the injury is disappearing, it’s going back to healthy tissue and stuff like that. So, like, unless those are just freak outliers that have been put out in the case studies, we could be on to something there, and, like, the worst-case scenario, you’re just having a decent amount of a low-quality protein. Best case scenario, it’s helping, so, like, there’s not much to lose outside of the money, and the inconvenience of taking another supplement.
Leah
00:19:41 – 00:20:18
Yeah, it’s an easy thing to take, so why not? And I feel like a lot of people, when they’re rehabbing an injury, are kind of grasping at straws and they’d pretty much do anything that will slightly help. So, it’s a good one. Last one for part one of these two episodes is going to be omega 3. So, omega 3 has a lot of different applications, kinda like most of these supplements, but it’s another one that I think is relevant to most athletes and exercises and can likely help regardless of what kind of exercise you are doing. Um, so we do know that it reduces inflammatory processes like that’s pretty clear at this point.
Leah
00:20:18 – 00:20:53
Um, and we can see a reduction in oxidative stress so potentially less DOMS so delayed onset muscle soreness. Things that are slightly less clear in the research but might also be a part of this, um, is a potential contribution to increase muscle mass gains in strength, improved endurance capacity by reducing the oxygen cost of exercise, and it potentially can help preserve muscle mass when calories are restricted, or more so during, like, immobilisation. So, when you’re potentially injured, not training, um, that might be a good time to take fish oil.
Aidan
00:20:53 – 00:21:16
Yeah, so like my—my thoughts on that because, like, there’s—there’s two studies on that right now and they’re insanely positive, like, they’re too good to be true. Like, there’s—one of the—there was a case study that was done, and I think it with the Brumbies, where they, like, ACL tear, immobilised, and they gained quad size. Like while the muscles are immobilised, usually people lose about 20% of their quad size in seven days when they were immobilised.
Leah
00:21:16 – 00:21:17
So too good to be true.
Aidan
00:21:17 – 00:21:49
Yeah, and it wasn’t just—it wasn’t just fish oil. They did fish oil plus creatine and plus that electro-stimulation of the muscles to, like, get it functioning and a few other things, but, like, the other two actual studies on it have been pretty clear that, like, it seemed to help, but, like, the researchers who do that study, or those studies, I’ve heard them talk and they’re not that high on it. Their words are—they’re like unless you have really low fish intake or lower omega 3 in your diet, we’re not even out here saying you should take fish all year round, like, we’re more saying that based on this research, if you tear an ACL and you know you’re going in for surgery in a couple of weeks,
Aidan
00:21:50 – 00:22:02
Start taking fish oil in advance just in case it helps, and, like, I can agree with that logic. My thoughts are if somebody’s got low fish intake or just lower omega 3’s through their diet then I’m far more likely to look at it.
Leah
00:22:02 – 00:22:03
Even just from a health perspective, it seems super beneficial.
Aidan
00:22:03 – 00:22:06
Yeah, exactly.
Leah
00:22:06 – 00:22:44
Um, so in regard to how much you should be taking to get these kinds of benefits is around 1 to 4 grams of fish oil per day, um, that is if you obviously eat fish. Otherwise, if you’re plant-based you can use some kind of microalgae supplement that is very similar. So, from that regard, you do wanna, I guess, stay away from like your—your chia and flax oil supplements, and really go for one that is going to be high in EPA and DHA, very similar to fish oil, rather than another form of omega 3 that’s less effective called ALA.
Leah
00:22:44 – 00:22:58
Um, and when you are looking for a vegan microalgae supplement, you just want to also make sure that it has about 200 milligrams of EPA and DHA combined because there are a lot that are fairly below that level. So, you have to be mindful about which one you are choosing.
Aidan
00:22:58 – 00:23:09
Cool. We’ll—we’ll wrap up there, so we’re going to aim to release both of these episodes in the same week, so we’ll wrap up there and move onto the next one and speak then.