Leah
00:00:07 – 00:00:23
Welcome to episode 19 of the Ideal Nutrition podcast. I am Leah Higl, and I am here with my co-host Aidan Muir, and today is going to be part two of evidence-based supplements for athletes. So, Aiden will get us kicked off.
Aidan
00:00:23 – 00:00:29
Well, we’re gonna start with beta-alanine, and we’re probably gonna do a podcast on this at some—we haven’t done one of this yet, have we?
Leah
00:00:29 – 00:00:30
No, I don’t think so.
Aidan
00:00:30 – 00:00:53
We’re going to do one on this at some stage, so I’ll try and be brief with this, but it’s basically beneficial for anybody who does any kind of exercise that lasts really 60 to 240 seconds is where it’s most evident in this space, but it seems to go up to about 10 minutes, and it’s got to be intense, like, you’ve got to be working as hard as you can. So, for example, if you’re doing a set in the gym that takes 60 seconds, but you’re not hitting anywhere near failure,
Aidan
00:00:53 – 00:01:21
It’s—like it’s not helping with that, like, it’s gotta be actually intense, and it’s the same kind of concept where it’s like anything where you feel that lactic acid build-up, like that kind of concept, it’s going to help with those exercises. Um, so yeah pretty relevant once again. Even CrossFit—like it really fits into CrossFit like a lot of events can be, like, up to 10 minutes in that kind of time range. So, like, makes a lot of sense of that and you really feel that burning feeling so it’s, like, pretty useful for that.
Aidan
00:01:22 – 00:02:06
In terms of how it works, so it basically increases carnosine in the bottle—in the body sorry, and this helps prevent pH from dropping. So that’s basically how it works, and that, in turn, helps reduce feelings of fatigue and reduce that lactic acid build up feeling. In terms of how to take it, this is a bit of a hard one to answer so, basically the research seems to say anywhere from, like, 4 to 6.4 grams per day is probably the amount that we want to be taking. But one of the issues with beta-alanine is it gives you, like, a tingling slash, like, itchy feeling, it’s really uncomfortable for a lot of people, it’s called paraesthesia, and some people get those little like 1.2 grams like they will feel that whereas other people are significantly higher.
Aidan
00:02:07 – 00:02:36
And the issue in the research is that, like, 6.4 grams taken daily for six months still doesn’t reach optimal muscle carnosine levels. It’s once again something that builds up in your system over time. And that therefore means you really take as much as you can handle basically. Yeah, and, um, just as a bit of an anecdote, like, I thought I was a massive outlier, like, I’ve had over six grams, um, without feeling anything, I got up to 10 grams without really feeling anything. In hindsight, I can look back now and be like, oh, I actually did feel some stuff, I just didn’t link it together.
Aidan
00:02:36 – 00:03:11
And the other day I took accidentally, like, 15 grams, like, I just—like, did I tell you about this? So, like, so because I didn’t get any things and I have this opinion of you just taking as much you can kind of handle. Um, I just started free pouring it. I stopped measuring it and then one day I poured out a little bit too much and I was like, eh YOLO, I just had it and then, like, I probably had it at, like, eight o’clock and at eight thirty, I was, like, pretty tired, like, I’m pretty nauseous so I might just go to bed, and I was just laying in there, like, pins and needles kind of feeling, like really itchy, and, like, nauseous and, like, yeah just overdosed on beta-alanine.
Leah
00:03:11 – 00:03:14
That’s crazy because you don’t experience that at all in, like, lower doses.
Aidan
00:03:14 – 00:03:31
In hindsight, now I’m like, there was, like, two times I can pinpoint back and be like, oh I was actually itchy, and I just thought I was itchy. I thought—like I was, like, what’s wrong with my clothes? Like why am I so itchy? It was just cause I’d gone so long not feeling anything that I’d even just forgotten that I was expecting to feel something.
Leah
00:03:31 – 00:03:46
I get that feeling even at lower doses pretty much every single time I take it. I’ll actually specifically use it—so I take less rest during set—like between sets, which is not the application it’s really meant for, but it makes me hurry my session up and that’s why I use it.
Aidan
00:03:46 – 00:03:53
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, I’ve got way more empathy now for people who say that because before that I was like, what? I don’t feel anything but—yeah, its horrific.
Leah
00:03:54 – 00:04:45
All right. Next one is vitamin D, um, so… like so many of these supplements have such a wide range of applications and so many different things it impacts on. But I think if you’re vitamin D deficient or you have low vitamin D levels, it is so worth fixing, um, and that is from so many different aspects. So obviously you have the calcium absorption and bone health part of that. So, we’re all pretty aware of vitamin D’s, uh, I guess, role in bone health. So other things that it could be helpful—helpful for in regard to athletic performance is that it potentially improves muscle strength if you’re addressing a deficiency, um, it can help with hypertrophy of type two fast twitch muscle fibres, potentially improve VO2 max, once again if you’re addressing a deficiency.
Leah
00:04:45 – 00:05:23
Um, and then roles in improved immune function, um, and reduced inflammatory markers. So, when I talk about vitamin D with my clients, I do talk about, like, this spectrum, in terms of like a doctor will tell you when you’re vitamin D deficient, but they won’t necessarily feel the need to address, like, lower mid-range vitamin D levels. But I think there’s a big difference between being vitamin D deficient and having optimal vitamin D stores, um, so even if you’re at that lower end of the range, uh, and you’re an athlete, you could be benefiting so much from getting it up to the higher end of that healthy range.
Aidan
00:05:23 – 00:05:58
And even with some, like, sports, it becomes far more relevant. Like I’ve been, like, just going down that rabbit hole of, like, listening to a lot of, like, basketball trainers and stuff like that. People who work with NBA athletes in the off season, they make a valid point like these guys are, like, on the court so often insides and then when they’re out, they’re, like, recovering, they don’t really have, like, energy outside all the time. It’s like—and often being honest, like, they obviously have darker skin in a lot of cases as well. It’s like almost all of them end up with vitamin D deficiencies, or they need to address it or whatever, um, that’s like such a—um, what’s the word? There’s so much potential. So much—like such an easy win.
Leah
00:05:58 – 00:06:08
An easy win. Yeah, I think that’s relevant way outside of, like, athletes and exercises as well just from a general health perspective but something to be mindful of.
Aidan
00:06:08 – 00:06:45
Yeah, and it’s, um, not Australian data, but it seems about like 30% of the population are deficient, and I would say about another 20% to 30% are in the sub optimal range. And, like, when you look at it from that lens like that—that’s why it becomes a question that I ask everybody. Just being like have you got a recent blood test? Have you ever tested vitamin D? Even if, like, I don’t necessarily think that somebody is at risk of it or anything like that, I always go like, well when you next get a blood test, just chuck that on, like, let’s just say see. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So, then the next one I’ll talk about is going to be iron supplements. So basically, really simple with this one, my thoughts are anybody who is deficient,
Aidan
00:06:45 – 00:06:59
Address it, whether it’s iron supplements, whether it’s food but, like, if you’re going down the iron supplementation route, that makes sense. I see this a lot—I don’t know if you see this a lot, but, like, a lot of people with iron deficiency who aren’t necessarily doing anything about it.
Leah
00:06:59 – 00:07:02
All the time, more often than not to be honest.
Aidan
00:07:02 – 00:07:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah and it really surprises me in the most empathetic way possible because it’s like such a—it is such an easy win like it’s not necessarily easy to solve, like, there can be, um, complications that come with supplementation like constipation is one of the biggest, like, issues that people seem to run into, but there’s other options and it’s worth, like, at least discussing with your doctor seeing what you can do. But, like, from an athletic perspective, or just general life, we know you feel more fatigued if you’re deficient in iron, hard to be super motivated, train really hard, all those kinds of things, do everything you can to be the best athlete you can, when you feel fatigued all the time. But then there’s also aspects of performance, like there’s issues with oxygen transportation, reduced VO2 max, exercise capacity, lower volume of red blood cells.
Aidan
00:07:45 – 00:08:12
I just talked about, like, the poor man’s blood doping in the last episode, but it’s like—there’s a reason people do that, there’s a reason, like, why athletes do that, and it’s like—we at least want to do what we naturally can, like, we want to be maximising that, and then we also have the iron losses that are higher in athletes due to sweating, and also the breakdown of red blood cells that occur. Like if you do running or anything like that, like, there’s a bit more breakdown. So, it’s like—we do want to address that. In terms of how I actually address that with my clients, I don’t know if you’re more specific than me,
Aidan
00:08:13 – 00:08:30
But I—one of the few things where I’m just, like, speak to your doctor, just, like, sort it out, like, kind of brushing it off. It’s kind of like they will be able to give a clearer recommendation than I can. They can work through all of those issues in terms of like what if general iron supplements cause issues for you? They can go and talk about iron transfusions and stuff like that that I can’t do.
Leah
00:08:30 – 00:08:50
Yeah, I love a good iron infusion. Yeah, I feel that people that have to supplement for like 3 to 6 months to get their iron to a good level, and iron infusion makes so much sense like that problem is gone in 24 hours. Yeah, look it’s a little bit expensive so there is that barrier, but I always say to my clients, like, if your doctor offers you one, take it.
Leah
00:08:52 – 00:09:40
All right, so the next one is probiotics. So, probiotics, once again, not something I am super sold on from a range of different perspectives, but there is a potential use of probiotics in immune function that could be, uh, you know, in relation to athletes. Um, so there is a little bit of research to suggest that, uh, probiotic consumption could decrease the risk of upper respiratory tract infections in athletes, particularly when they have very high training loads, and they are at risk of that. Um, so it’s one of those things, like, if you are at risk of those kinds of infections because you’re—you’re an elite athlete, you’re training all the time, you’re working towards, you know, an event or a goal or something like that.
Leah
00:09:40 – 00:09:49
It makes sense to maybe tack this on. Um, it’s not something I’ve ever recommended in practice. I don’t think I really work with the athletes where it’s applicable to.
Aidan
00:09:49 – 00:10:14
Yeah, it’s usually endurance athletes, like, some of the studies have been done on rugby players as well, and really like overreaching phases—like I wouldn’t—like that’s kinda what you’re saying, but it’s not just training hard. It’s like—it’s training hard for you intentionally overreaching and, like, when you’re in an overreaching phase, your performance usually actually drops off because you’re overtraining, um, and that’s like—that’s part of the overall periodisation plan or whatever but I really want to put that out there because, like a lot of people will be like, yeah train hard.
Leah
00:10:14 – 00:10:15
That’s true.
Aidan
00:10:15 – 00:10:16
Yeah.
Leah
00:10:16 – 00:11:03
Yeah, but it’s when you’re really, really pushing the bounds of things, and you’re not able to recover and therefore have reduced immunity as a by-product of that. Um, so it can make sense in that regard, but it’s very—it’s what we call strain specific so any kind of—so probiotics have a range of different things they could be helpful for, potentially, but it’s really specific in regard to what strain of probiotic you use, um, so the International Society of Sports Nutrition does have a good position statement on this where they do list, um, all of the probiotic strains that could be useful in—like within this, um, what we’re talking about here, which, if this is something you’re interested in, I would urge you to look at that because I’m not going to name them all here now.
Aidan
00:11:03 – 00:11:10
It’s something that we were talking about how it’s like—there’s never any good, like, recommendations of being, like, this is the probiotic you should take, like, nobody’s—nobody’s—
Leah
00:11:10 – 00:11:12
There’s no product recommendations yeah.
Aidan
00:11:12 – 00:11:40
Yeah, everyone’s really hesitant to do that and, like, after looking into it, I see why, like, if you—in that position stand, like, the way they did it is basically where it’s like—these are all the strains that have been shown in research to have positive effects, and often you will look at these products in the stores and they actually cut—there’s so much overlap and it’s like—well they actually probably do cover in a lot of cases, and that’s—that’s one of the reasons why it’s like, well when you think about from that perspective, it’s actually hard to name a specific one because it’s like 10, 20, 30 different options.
Leah
00:11:40 – 00:11:42
Yeah, it could be a lot of different supplements that would be suitable.
Aidan
00:11:42 – 00:12:22
Yeah, and there’s other things, like, in terms of like GI symptoms as well it could help with that, like runners’ gut and stuff like that. And, like, one that I’m far less sold on but it’s in there is like reduced DOMS like your delayed onset muscle soreness is another potential benefit too. So, next one will be pre-workout, like—I don’t know, I want to be quick with this one because basically pre-workout is just often cobbled together like multiple ingredients all those kinds of things and all the stuff that we’ve talked about, like, almost always it will have caffeine. In a lot of other cases, it will have beta-alanine, creatine, citrulline malate. We’ve talked about all of those. Citrulline or citrulline malate, obviously, you need that in an acute phase, makes a lot of sense having it in pre-workout.
Aidan
00:12:22 – 00:13:00
Beta-alanine, like, that’s one thing that builds up in the system over time but if you go back to that kind of thing about how it, um, causes that tingling feeling or the itchiness and all those feelings that people don’t like. It’s not a bad thing to have, like, another two grams here and there, like every now and then, like, that’s fine. Creatine, like, obviously once again it makes sense to supplement that individually, but it’s not necessarily a bad thing to have in the pre-workout as well. You just don’t necessarily need that. Some people talk about how having a pre-workout could improve absorption but if you haven’t consistently enough, it’s not going to matter. And there’s a few other ingredients like that in there that usually are going to help improve performance a little bit as well.
Aidan
00:13:00 – 00:13:18
I always want to point that out because, like, a lot of people act as if there’s, like, nothing in there that’s helping or they just say, like, it’s only caffeine or it’s like—but even if we just use the citrulline as an example, like, it’s gonna improve performance, um, and the other thing that I meant to touch on is, um, beta-alanine and that tingling feeling. Often, they put that in there so people feel it.
Leah
00:13:18 – 00:13:19
Like, oh this is working.
Aidan
00:13:19 – 00:13:37
Yeah, exactly like it’s just a bit of that placebo and stuff like that, even to the point that some pre-workouts don’t include beta-alanine, but they include high dosages of B vitamins which give that same feeling. It’s a safe feeling. It’s not harmful or anything like that but it’s also that’s not what’s actually helping you. It’s just a feeling. It’s just a thing.
Leah
00:13:37 – 00:13:39
What about non-stim pre-workout?
Aidan
00:13:39 – 00:14:23
Yes, so often non-stim pre-workouts are basically similar things in terms of that—that kind of pump thing—like that citrulline malate, very similar. They’ve got citrulline malate, they might have, like, AAKG, which is a similar product as well, and they might have other, like, nitric oxide promoters as well. So, like, those are all things that allow you to get a bit of a pump but also improve performance as well a little bit. As I mentioned when I was talking about citrulline malate, does that improve muscle growth? Like I—I—the theory makes sense to me, like it does make sense to me, but we have studies where, like, if you take creatine for 12 weeks, you gain more muscle. The studies don’t show that with citrulline malate yet, so it’s like even if that is helping, it’s not a clear enough benefit to really matter.
Leah
00:14:23 – 00:15:06
Yeah, and I always think when it comes to pre-workout, if I have a client and they’re like, I really like this pre-workout, I like how it makes me feel. Cool. Keep taking it. Great. Um, so the next thing we’re going to talk about is glycerol. Um, so glycerol basically allows you to be hyperhydrated, so there’s a level where you’re adequately hydrated, and then utilising glycerol you can get past that point of being kind of adequately hydrated that you wouldn’t be able to get without it. Um, so it can allow for you to have an extra—like up to a litre of extra water in your system, um, and then it’s usually combined with sodium to eat further improve that hyperhydration.
Leah
00:15:06 – 00:15:44
Um, so you can retain 72% more water, uh, than sodium alone if you’re using glycerol and sodium together. Where that is actually going to be useful, um, is when you’re doing any kind of endurance exercise specifically that is where sweat rates are gonna be high, you’re going to lose a lot of water, and you’re really going to struggle to not become dehydrated. So, we really want to avoid losing more than 2% of our body weight due to fluid losses when we’re at an event or when we’re training to keep our performance high, um, and there’s not always gonna be adequate, you know, fluids available to you at certain times.
Aidan
00:15:44 – 00:15:46
Or you can only take on so much without feeling sick.
Leah
00:15:46 – 00:16:22
You can only take on so much, like there’s so many barriers to not becoming dehydrated that for some athletes, it makes sense to lean more towards this hyperhydration utilising glycerol and a sodium protocol. Um, there is some relevance to lifters and bodybuilders in that it can give you like a bit of a pump. Whether that actually leads to any increase in muscle mass, like, I personally don’t think so. It’s murky, um, but you know, it could make you feel good, you get a bit of an extra bicep pump so I can see why some people would be drawn to it in that way.
Aidan
00:16:22 – 00:16:42
Another idea that I’ve thought about and, like, it doesn’t seem, like, many people are using this and there’s other options one of them which we’ll talk about next actually. But, um, for that kind of thing, getting a pump it’s like what about on show day for a bodybuilder? Like if they get a better pump, like, there’s obviously—you can take it too far, but, like, they might look a bit better on stage, like, that’s something I have seen some coaches used but not many. It’s not super popular.
Leah
00:16:43 – 00:17:32
Yeah, and going back to those sweat rates as we do know that sweat rates are higher when you are hyper hydrated which can actually have a flow on effect of being—like having a cooling effect. So, if you’re in a very hot and humid environment being hyper hydrated and having those higher sweat rates may be beneficial to delaying fatigue. The only issue I once again have with glycerol is very similar to when we talked about bicarb is how you actually go about taking it. Um, so you need about 1.2 grams per kilo of body weight, um, and then you—of glycerol, and then you combine that with about 26 mls per kilo of fluid. So, putting this into context, if we’re thinking of, like, a 75 kg athlete, that would be 90 grams of glycerol in two litres of fluid,
Leah
00:17:32 – 00:17:50
And then you’d consume that over the course of an hour about 30 minutes before exercise. Um, talking about, like, how you’re actually going to buy glycerol, I think, is the most interesting part because the glycerol you actually buy, it’s not targeted as a supplement. It’s not, like, I guess, labelled in that way. It’s sort of for topical use.
Aidan
00:17:50 – 00:17:53
Yeah. It’s for skin use.
Leah
00:17:53 – 00:18:10
So, you’d buy it from the chemist and it’s for use on your skin, um, and then it does sometimes say on the tube, like, not made for human consumption. So, I’m always a little bit worried—like I’ve never—I’ve never done this with a client, um, but would—would you recommend it in that case?
Aidan
00:18:10 – 00:18:41
No. So once again, I do work with a lot of endurance athletes, and I haven’t actually done it but, like, it does make a lot of sense to me. It does seem to help like particularly—like imagine being on a really hot day, heart rate’s high, like it makes a lot of sense. I just haven’t used it with anybody yet, but, like, after we mentioned it on a previous podcast, like, I actually have tried it since then. And another logistical challenge came up because once again, I did try it, it was quite a lot. I felt uncomfortable doing it, but, like, it’s a really sweet taste, like, it tastes like putting honey in water basically except it mixes through really well.
Leah
00:18:41 – 00:18:43
So, it’s at least more palatable than bicarb.
Aidan
00:18:43 – 00:18:50
Yeah, and that got me thinking, I don’t wanna put you on the spot, but like I—I, um, I was like, this tastes really sweet. Has it got calories?
Leah
00:18:50 – 00:18:51
Yeah.
Aidan
00:18:51 – 00:18:58
And how many calories do you—would 90 grams have? Can you think of it off the top of your head?
Leah
00:18:58 – 00:19:07
Oh my gosh, I can’t remember, but I remember doing the actual math in terms of like that 75 kg athlete using 90 grams of glycerol, and it being a ton of carbs and a ton of calories.
Aidan
00:19:08 – 00:19:38
Yeah, so it comes out—like I’m not sure if it’s actually carbs, like, I think glycerol is its own nutrients but it’s like similar. I think it was like—I think it’s about 500 calories and it’s kind of like logistically, like, for a race yes, but then even that is like does that contribute to gastrointestinal distress because you’ve just taken an extra 500 calories? Like I don’t know. But then the other thing that, like, I think about it is like if we’re going to the pump aspect for somebody who is just going to the gym, are you going to take on an extra 500 calories? Just to get a better pump. Obviously, it doesn’t make sense anymore.
Leah
00:19:38 – 00:19:39
No.
Aidan
00:19:39 – 00:19:54
Um, yeah. So that’s another logistical challenge. So, it might improve performance, but, like, even going back to actually endurance athletes, like, you’d have to trial it in training leading up to it but you also wouldn’t try it so often that you’re taking on 500 calories for no reason.
Leah
00:19:54 – 00:20:06
You wouldn’t want to try it. Yeah, all of the time and utilise that in training and I think taking on two litres of water as well, like two litres of water and 500 calories 30 minutes before exercise is a lot more than I typically recommend.
Aidan
00:20:06 – 00:20:51
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, the next one that I kind of alluded to, but we’ll talk about now is, beetroot juice. So, beetroot juice is just another kind of thing that—it increases vasodilation as well. So, it’s a great source of nitrates which convert to nitric oxide and that leads to improve vasodilation. In terms of performance for endurance athletes, super, super clear on average for a 5K run it improves performance by about 1.5%. That’s not massive but that’s not small and it’s such a consistent benefit. It seems to be the better trained athletes get, the less of a benefit they get from it, partly because they might already have adaptations. Like maybe their blood—like they get better vasodilation anyway, like, maybe that’s just a natural thing that happens as you get better at being an athlete.
Aidan
00:20:51 – 00:21:03
Um, but even that people are theorising you can just have more beetroot juice, and it might solve that problem too. So that’s something to think about. Um, in terms of lifters, have you watched The Game Changers? Did you watch that?
Leah
00:21:03 – 00:21:05
I actually didn’t really watch all of it.
Aidan
00:21:06 – 00:21:07
Yeah, that’s your niche I’m surprised.
Leah
00:21:07 – 00:21:09
I know.
Leah
00:21:09 – 00:21:38
So, like, I did watch it and there was, like, one line in that I was like, oh I gotta look this up. They talked about beetroot juice and bench press performance, and the study—they actually misquoted it, I can’t remember the exact number, but I think they said they improved bench press by 19%. I was like sick, I’m gonna go—I’m gonna go around Valhalla telling all my powerlifters but, like, I was like, that’s clearly overhyped. So, I’m like, I’m gonna look at the study, and what this study actually did do was they looked at 60% of one rep max. So, if you can bench 100 kg, you’d be looking at 60 kg.
Leah
00:21:39 – 00:22:05
How many reps you can do with that, and on the first sets of the group that was taking beetroot juice got 20 reps then 15 reps in the second set and then 12 on the set after. So, it’s pretty clear they’re trained to failure because it was a big drop off obviously, um, but they got 17% more reps than the group not taking beetroot juice or the crossover and everything like that. 17% more. So, it’s not the 19 that was quoted, and it’s—It’s in terms of reps to failure on a higher rep set, it’s a pretty big improvement,
Aidan
00:22:05 – 00:22:42
And once again it helps you to get a better pump but, like, does that carry over to the better muscle growth? And then the logistics of it once again is it’s pretty expensive, like, a shot is $4 or $5. So that’s the other thing so, like, how to take it. The amount you need to take—because like a lot of people are like, oh I eat beetroot regularly, it’s fine. Like no, like if you’re eating beetroot, it’s a kilo of beetroot you need to eat to get this benefit, and the way to take it is 500 ml of beetroot juice but that’s still a lot so, I’d rather take the concentrated shot form. So, 70 ml shot 30 to 90 minutes before training or exercise. If you’re taking it for endurance purposes, you’re not going to eat a kilo of beetroot 30 to 90 minutes before.
Leah
00:22:43 – 00:22:44
It would be a lot of beetroot.
Aidan
00:22:44 – 00:23:15
Yeah, so the shots make a lot of sense. It’s even better if you take it daily for up to six days and then after that, the benefits appear to plateau. One of the good things, though, beyond all—everything else we just talked about in performance enhancement and stuff like that, is it’s high in antioxidants. So, you’ll get other benefits from it, its high in micronutrients, everything like that. It’s still—it is still vegetable juices, so it still has other benefits, but endurance athletes? Makes a little sense. Lifters? I wouldn’t go out of my way but if you have all the money in the world and you happen to like it then maybe take it occasionally is how I’d go with it.
Leah
00:23:16 – 00:23:23
Awesome. So that wraps up episode 19 of the Ideal Nutrition podcast and we’ll be back next week. Thank you.