Podcast Episode 29 Transcript – Vitamin C

Aidan

00:00:05 – 00:00:49

Yeah. Mm. Hello. And welcome back to the ideal nutrition podcast. This is Episode 29 it will be the final week that I’m with my co host, Tyler Brooks. Before Leah returns next week, and today we’re gonna be talking about vitamin C. So we’re gonna be doing a bit of a deep dive on everything vitamin C related and how it could be beneficial and everything like that. I wouldn’t say I really know more about vitamin C than the average dietitian. I would say Tyler knows more about vitamin C than the average dietitian. So it’s gonna be mostly me just asking questions and following my interest, basically, And Tyler talking. So what did you want to start off with? Like, what’s an interesting thing about vitamin C? Where are we starting with? 

Tyler

00:00:49 – 00:01:05

Oh, first of all, I’d say just a random, interesting fact. First up, humans and some primates are one of the only, um, animals that can’t make their own vitamin C. Most animals can make their own vitamin C like your dog can make its own vitamin C. Humans can’t do that. We have to get it from diet. 

Tyler

00:01:07 – 00:01:32

I did a little bit of read into it. I think it was just some random branch of evolution way back in the day. There’s a few other random species that can’t make their own vitamin C, but most can. Humans are one of the few that can’t and whatever branch of evolution it was back in the day. Um, we have all passed that I think. Well, I would assume most of because we do get it through diet pretty easily or pretty comfortably in most circumstances. So probably has something to do with it. 

Aidan

00:01:32 – 00:01:40

Yes, so we get through diet pretty easily. As you said, we don’t make it. How long does it stay in our system after we eat it? 

Tyler

00:01:40 – 00:02:02

Sure, So vitamin C usually sticks around in the system for about 24 hours. It’s something we kind of need a relatively consistent in take off. So, for example, if you were to supplement a dose or consumer dose through food, it will elevate the amount of vitamin C in your blood for about 24 hours before we see it return back to baseline levels. 

Aidan

00:02:02 – 00:02:27

Yeah, for sure. So, like they’re looking at in terms of like any applications. I suppose we need to keep that in mind. Like in terms of this is jumping straight into the way. It’s a bit like something. Something that I find interesting, is like the whole topic of vitamin C and exercise and stuff like that. Do you want to go there first or do you want to go? Let’s go. Background stuff first. Let’s come back to that like let’s go through background stuff like, What is what is important background stuff We need to know. 

Tyler

00:02:27 – 00:02:57

I think there’s a bit of important context before we jump straight to that, um, largely around things like dozing and all those things, I guess so. Backing up a little bit. First of all, um, you probably think of vitamin C most commonly something you’d use if you get sick, um, to help with immune function and those sorts of things. Um, that comes from this idea that some of the immune cells neutrophils, for example, that help fight bacteria and virus an infection and that sort of stuff use a higher percentage of vitamin C compared to a lot of other cells in the body. 

Tyler

00:02:58 – 00:03:11

These immune cells have even more vitamin C to work with. Um, so if you have more of those resources to help fight the you know, whatever pathogens or bacteria fighting off, you’re potentially going to be able to do it more effectively. 

Aidan

00:03:14 – 00:03:42

I’ve heard a common line like so most people take it. I just seemed to prevent an aid recovery from sickness. I’ve heard a common line from a lot of people in nutrition world saying stuff like It doesn’t seem to prevent the frequency of getting sick, but it does seem to help speed up recovery. And a common line that’s chucked out there is by about half a day on average, reading through a lot of stuff you’ve kind of written down in the notes and prep for this podcast. It’s obviously a lot more complex than that, but like expanding on that kind of topic. 

Tyler

00:03:44 – 00:04:35

So in terms of reducing potentially reducing the duration of cold symptoms, the research is pretty mixed on this. If you look at the overall amount of research, um, some find a meaningful benefit. Some don’t, um, some kind of inter consistent, and we’ll get into a few problems with why this might be in a minute. But overall, if you do, does to the right amount. There’s some pretty good results with, um, you know, up to a 25% reduction, potentially in cold and flu duration now. Lot of that research comes from people who were taking it in advance. So prophylactically, so taking vitamin C daily and then taking more vitamin C at the onset of cold and flu symptoms. And they had a pretty good benefit. Or they showed potential benefit beyond just regular vitamin C supplementation when the cold starts. 

Tyler

00:04:35 – 00:05:05

So there might be additional benefit in making sure you have a good amount leading up to that. Then when you do get those cold and flu symptoms taking more again and this could come back to, you know, just strengthening those immune cells and and some of those active processes that are using up vitamin C in fighting off the cold and flu. And I think like if you’re looking at anywhere from she’s even a 10% reduction in cold and flu symptoms or duration, that’s pretty meaningful. Like all you want to do when you’re sick is get better like when you have a cold or a flu or man flu in extreme cases.

Tyler

00:05:05 – 00:05:38

All you want to do is get better. So if you can say your cold goes for four days and you get a 25% reduction, you’re potentially sick for significantly less time than you would be. Otherwise, I’d say that’s probably worthwhile. Um, and there’s an even more sort of, I guess there’s a slightly higher magnitude of effect in Children as well. So this could come down to parents like If you want your kid to get better, faster pumps and vitamin C into them potentially. Um, you know, And it could have that positive benefit of those like your kids getting better. Quicker? 

Aidan

00:05:38 – 00:05:48

Yeah. And like, out of interest. Are there any other like groups like I think I saw somewhere in There about athletes and stuff like that doesn’t have more of a role in terms of athletes from that perspective, 

Tyler

00:05:48 – 00:06:24

yes, So in terms of like preventing the cold and flu in general population, it doesn’t seem to prevent, it does seem to prevent you getting sick much in athlete population. It does So there was a 50% roughly 50% reduction of incidents of cold and flu in endurance. Athletes, for example, who were supplementing with vitamin C, will touch on a little bit of how it kind of affects exercise a little bit later on. But, yeah, there’s potentially, um, more of a role that it plays with those high level athletes or people exercising at a higher level than, say, the average person. 

Aidan

00:06:24 – 00:06:56

Yeah, super interesting for sure. And like even something that, like we’ve kind of spoken a little bit like probiotics and stuff like that, that same kind of thinking, like when they’re overreaching phases, particularly endurance athletes as well, like there’s so much more likely to get sick. And that seems to affect long term progress over long phases like there are some statistics out there, things from like Olympics, like their data just tracking and being like, How much is this affecting people’s training blocks? How much is this affecting performance and actual events and stuff like that? It’s like if you get sick less frequently, your performance will actually be better eventually.

Tyler

00:06:56 – 00:07:31

yeah, for sure, So you miss a week of training through being sick, and then your training at 60- 70% capacity the next week cause you’re still recovering a little bit, not 100%. Yeah, you know, that’s two weeks out of your calendar. If that happens, you know, five times that, Yeah, You’re losing 10 weeks a year of training like that, the whole training block in some exercise programs. So that’s going to potentially have an effective. You’re looking at a long term phase, like a yearly competition or a four yearly competition. Four years, 10 weeks a year. You missing 40 weeks of training potentially through being sick. If you can reduce or prevent that, that’s going to be meaningful. 

Aidan

00:07:31 – 00:07:52

Yeah, and even just the random sports. It just breaks the ribbon like when training is going well and then just break that room and like, Yeah, it’s a big difference. What I guess I really want to talk about is, I guess, dosing so like, let’s start with gold standard. What is the typical dosages? Let’s start there and that’s like then go a little bit more advanced from there. So, like recommended daily intakes, those kind of things, sure.

Tyler

00:07:52 – 00:08:44

the recommended daily intake in Australia is about 45 milligrams per day of vitamin C for men or women. Um, that’s for adults. So inside of that, individual needs are going to vary pretty significantly. Um, so one of vitamin C’s main, I guess roles in the body is to help prevent oxidation or help reduce inflammation. So we have these compounds in the body called reactive oxygen species. These are things that are basically unstable molecules. Vitamin C can help stabilise them by donating one of its chemical groups, so the vitamin C basically helps reduce how much of these inflammatory compounds are floating around the body. Essentially, so, based on your lifestyle, you will have more or less inflammation compared to somebody else. So, for example, um, smoking increases the amount of inflammation you have in your body. 

Tyler

00:08:45 – 00:09:22

Alcohol intake will increase. That, um, exercise will even increase that to some degree. So there are various natural and natural sources of inflammation. So vitamin C has a role in combating these, um, and the effects they have on overall inflammation in the body. So if you have more information, potentially need more vitamin C. Now the R D I is set at 45 milligrams per kilogram uh, sorry. 45 milligrams per day, um, to prevent deficiency. So that’s what the RDIs are therefore so recommended. Daily intakes are done to prevent deficiency at a population level. Um, they’re not there to optimise health and performance. So 

Tyler

00:09:23 – 00:09:34

is it optimal to just be getting in the R D I, which you can probably do through fruits and vegetables? Probably not. If you have enhanced needs or exercising high level or various lifestyle factors that are contributing, 

Aidan

00:09:34 – 00:09:45

let’s add some context. So two things I want to consider. So one of them is like easy to get through fruits and vegetables like Let’s put context around like Let’s go through, like, how much? In an orange? Like, 80 milligrams. Something like that. 

Tyler

00:09:55 – 00:10:16

I know that you can get, um, typically the average sort of minimal level of vitamin C, and the blood is somewhere between 70 to 85. I think on average, if you’ve got a diet rich in vegetables and fruits and those sorts of things, so that will sit your plasma level at around 70 to 85 million miles. And we’ll add some more context to that in a little bit when it comes to supplementation. Um, 

Aidan

00:10:16 – 00:10:37

so in orange is cutting in, so an orange is 70 Milligrams on average obviously depends on the size so close enough. And like people, whenever I say that fact that, like all the captain’s got more than an orange, it’s got double the amount of something like it is like if the idea is 45 milligrams and one orange has 70 like it is pretty comfortable to get through foods. Basically, 

Tyler

00:10:37 – 00:10:41

you think that. But I know you’re a fan of this. How many people get their recommended servings for It’s a vegetable per day, like it’s what is like the combinations, like less than 6% right? 

Tyler

00:10:47 – 00:11:09

So, you know, even if you are getting that from one source, there is probably a fair few people are even getting to that. So again, the RDI is just to prevent deficiency. So again you can have an orange, and it’s going to prevent you getting scurvy or getting deficiency of vitamin C. But again, that’s been potentially a fair margin away from what might be the optimal amount of vitamins. Yeah, 

Aidan

00:11:09 – 00:11:20

I’ve got another just thought that I’ve always considered and I think we’re talking about, like, the whole, like, scurvy thing. Say somebody goes Carnivore. Yes. Why don’t they get scurvy? 

Tyler

00:11:20 – 00:11:33

There are very small amounts in certain meets the vitamin C, so you will get some in tissues. There’s not a lot because vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin, so it’s not really stored that much. 

Aidan

00:11:33 – 00:11:35

It won’t get anywhere near the 45 milligram mark, though it won’t I I don’t know why. 

Aidan

00:11:40 – 00:12:06

So my understanding is something to do with, like with the amount of carbohydrates, like something along. Like if you have a higher carbohydrate diet, seems like you need more vitamin C is the kind of thing that a lot of people talk about. Or maybe to get Scobie, you’ve just got to go pretty low, like the difference between 45 Milligrams and Scobee is quite significant. Yeah, it’s a very hard rabbit hole because it’s kind of like the people in the carnival crew. They’re not exactly the most reliable source of information as well. 

Tyler

00:12:06 – 00:12:19

Yeah, no, I do. Yeah, I do know That’s the thing I do know. They say there are some trace amounts in the foods are eating meat and liver, I think. And things like that are more likely to be consumed on the carnivore diet as opposed to the regular diet that addresses it.

Tyler

00:12:20 – 00:12:23

But yeah, I didn’t know about carbohydrate increasing. 

Aidan

00:12:23 – 00:12:35

Yeah, something. I’ve seen a lot of people in that crowd, kind of even. That’s an interesting one. Because as we spoke about in the last one, protein can be converted to glucose. So it’s not like you’ve got no glucose coming in like you’re still getting glucose. Yeah, 

Tyler

00:12:35 – 00:12:51

for sure. Um okay, so going back to what might be a more optimal amount of intake for vitamin C, we touched on RDI, being 45 milligrams, um, the upper limit, which is set, um, you know, along with the RDI and its upper limits.

Tyler

00:12:52 – 00:13:25

kind of like how much would be the most that is recommended to take or the, you know, a safe amount. Now, the upper limit in Australia is set to 1000 milligrams per day. Keeping in mind the RDI is 45 milligrams per day. That’s already a big gap between RDI, um Now, if we look at what vitamin C supplementation or intake does to those plasma levels we touched on it before plasma levels. How much is sitting in your blood is somewhere between 70 to 85 millennials now, 200 milligrams of vitamin C is going to take your plasma levels up to 90 million miles. 

Tyler

00:13:26 – 00:14:08

Um, so 1.25 grams, as in a little bit more than the upper limit of intake will take your plasma levels from 90 up to 180 milligrams 100 and 80 million miles. So that’s a two fold increase. But you have to take more than two. Fold the amount of vitamin C, um, taking three grams of vitamin C orally. We’ll take your plasma levels up to 220 million more, and that’s about the highest we see your blood levels of vitamin C get to from oral supplementation. Now that’s 66 times the R D I. That’s a huge, huge increase in what is recommended to take daily and still a magnitude of three times the upper limit. 

Tyler

00:14:09 – 00:14:50

But that’s where we see a lot of the research showed Benefit in vitamin C supplementation is that these higher intakes and the intakes above the upper limit. So you know the supplementation and how much you’re getting through. Diet is a completely different thing. I’d say that’s important to consider when we look at the research because a lot of the research, as I mentioned earlier shows mixed benefits. So that could come from how much did they use in the research? Did they use what would be the safe upper limit? Because we see benefits far beyond that when we go above the upper limit, it could be, you know, did you only use X amount as opposed to a huge amount? You know, there’s various things that go along with vitamin C timing, as we talked about earlier, you return to baseline levels after 24 hours.

Tyler

00:14:50 – 00:15:10

That means that 12 hours you’ve got half the amount, so some studies will dose multiple times. Yeah, some will dose every four hours. So there is so much mixed methodology in the way these studies are done. Um, that probably is why you see such mixed results in whether it’s effective or not. 

Aidan

00:15:10 – 00:15:16

So I’m curious because I know you take high dose vitamin C. Do you take it multiple times today? For this reason? 

Tyler

00:15:17 – 00:15:49

I do, especially when I’m sick. If I feel like I’ve got a cold or a flu coming on, I’m doing three grams every four hours, and I know that’s maintaining my absolute maximum plasma concentration of vitamin C. Um, and anecdotally, for me, it’s fine. It works great. Like I tend to be pretty resilient. I really get so supplement vitamin C daily. But I really get sick when I do. I absolutely stacked vitamin C in there. Yeah, I figure if I’m going to increase my plasma levels of vitamin C and I’m trying to fight off an illness or a sickness, I increase it to the maximum level. I don’t tend to go to half measures, but that’s just me. 

Tyler

00:15:50 – 00:15:56

I always like, not something I’ve really ever recommend to my clients in terms of that amount. But personally, I find it works well for me. 

Aidan

00:15:57 – 00:16:10

Yeah, for sure, really pushing the threshold there and I guess that begs the question. If you’re comfortable doing that, why would any thoughts on why the upper limit would be set at one gramme?

Tyler

00:16:11 – 00:16:32

Yeah, I think what you see is, like potential GI upset and things like that. So, um, you do see, uh, potential, like diarrhea, those sorts of things. If you do do a very high dose. Supposedly, um, I’ve never experienced it, but like I say, I am going from when I get sick and I dose a high amount, I’m going from like a normal daily dose. Anyway, 

Tyler

00:16:33 – 00:17:07

um, if you were to not have any in the diet and you’ve got a very low level and you’re not used to consuming and all of a sudden you dumped three grams in there, you may have an issue, but realistically, um, I think that’s where it comes from. Um, and again, it says in those upper limits, if you have a look on, you know, the government websites and that sort of thing. It says it’s not possible to establish an upper limit for vitamin C. But 1000 milligrams per day is a prudent limit. Yeah, that doesn’t really mean anything. There’s no research showing like don’t take more than that. It’s dangerous to take more? Um, yeah. So I think it just comes from the GI upset. 

Aidan

00:17:07 – 00:17:15

So the next two things that I want to talk through is sport and exercise and maybe even cancer Out of those two, which would you start off with?

Tyler

00:17:15 – 00:18:02

Maybe just can’t because we’ll just talk briefly on it like I haven’t gone. He fired down that, um, but the the research and cancer comes well, it’s largely done at an extremely high dose, much more than you can achieve orally. So orally. Like I mentioned, the maximum amount you can take is about three grams Any more than that doesn’t do anything in terms of further increasing your plasma levels. Um, there is cases out there where people have been given 40 grams through intravenous vitamins. That’s a huge amount. So we’re talking about three grams being 66 times the FBI. Yeah, there’s 40 gramme doses being pumped into people intravenously. 

Tyler

00:18:03 – 00:18:34

Um, I believe mechanistically when vitamin C is, um reduced or when it donates its, um, hydroxyl groups. It has a structure somewhat similar to glucose, and it starts to interrupt glucose uptake into cancer cells. The cancer cells need obviously the glucose to replicate and survive, and I believe it has some sort of, well, that’s a proposed mechanism with it, helping it with the management of cancer and chemotherapy and things like that, Um, as well as those sort of anti inflammatory, um, roles that vitamin C has. So I think that’s the mechanism. Do you have much more to add to that? 

Aidan

00:18:34 – 00:18:58

Yeah, it’s an interesting one, like one caveat that I’m going to give onto this is that it is a very mixed area in the actual research in terms of outcomes and stuff like that, even like I was looking at stuff before that. Like obviously like I’ve looked at this for years as well, and obviously it’s an interesting topic, but like I haven’t gotten super super deep down the rabbit hole because most people seem to be at one extreme or the other like there’s a lot of people at one extreme who’s like, 

Aidan

00:18:59 – 00:19:37

quite literally vitamin C, very significant thing that’s really going to help with cancer management in higher doses, all these kind of things. At the other end of the spectrum, there is also smart people who are like No. We think vitamin C is actually detrimental to cancer. There are people who are saying lines like it seems to protect all the cells in the body from chemotherapy, including cancer cells, which therefore means chemotherapy suddenly becomes less effective and so on and so forth. And you have to go on for longer et cetera to get the same results. And, like, maybe the answer is in the middle. Maybe there’s a bit of both being true or whatever. I just want to add that caveat being like, I’m not out here telling people, 

Aidan

00:19:41 – 00:19:49

I think you if you’re going through that process, you want to have people around you here. You definitely trust who it is, their job to know the answer to that question basically, for sure. 

Tyler

00:19:49 – 00:19:58

And, uh, that ain’t us. We just like to look at the reason it’s a little bit and talk through some of these things. Um, yeah, out of professional curiosity, because that is mostly what it is to me.

Aidan

00:19:58 – 00:20:09

Like I haven’t had a cancer patient. I don’t even know how long it’s been. It’s been a long time since I’ve had one, so I don’t have to go deep down that rabbit hole. But it is an interesting thing, and I think it’s something that should be on people’s radar and be aware of for sure. 

Tyler

00:20:09 – 00:20:27

And yeah, that that mechanism of you know taking it intravenously is like so next level. And I do like the idea of like and the science behind that’s cool. It’s like, How much nutrients can we pump into the body? And is it going to do anything? Yeah, I don’t mind taking things to extremes. I think it’s kind of cool. 

Aidan

00:20:27 – 00:21:09

Yeah, I think it’s fascinating. And, like, I think people need to be looking at those areas as well. Very Joe Rogan esque as well when he got confiscated Ivy. But yeah, yeah, um, so in terms of exercise, like, I’m gonna put some background on this before we go deeper in this. So basically up until about two or three years ago, in the evidence base lifting community, there’s a big thing where everyone is like don’t take high dose vitamin C around the time of lifting because it’s going to blunt your hyper actually, adaptations and the logic basically came from thinking it through in terms of when we lift. We’re doing muscle damage and were causing some inflammation and all of these things that we often think of as negatives. 

Aidan

00:21:09 – 00:21:56

But arguably, that’s part of what stimulates the adaptation, which then leads to muscle growth. That is what prompts your body to try and recover and grow stronger. Um, and the argument was, if we blunt some of these things, it blunts the adaptation. And a lot of people would then also looking at the information or the studies that were done on endurance athletes. And it seemed to be like it was leaning in favour of. If you have high dose antioxidants around the time of endurance training, you get less sore because there’s less oxidative damage. But the adaptations didn’t seem to be as strong in the lifting world because somebody Erich Traxler did a systematic review on this topic and meta analysis and came to the conclusion that there’s almost no research on lifters on this and, like his sense after doing a systematic review, is 

Aidan

00:21:57 – 00:22:23

it doesn’t seem to matter, but his other senses, just like I just don’t see much benefit in it either. So it’s like if you want to be cautious, have it separate from that. There’s a few things to cover in that because it’s like, What are your thoughts on that in terms of one? Because, as you said, how long it’s in the system for? Is there some dozing protocols? If you were concerned about that, But then two Should you be concerned about it at all? And if you’re not concerned about it, we don’t know. It seems to decrease the late onset muscle soreness, which is an advantage as well. 

Tyler

00:22:23 – 00:22:54

Yeah, for sure. That’s really good. Uh, I’m not really cool path to walk down, and I like this one. So, um, yes, as I mentioned, Yeah, as you mentioned. You do produce some of these reactive oxygen species or these inflammatory compounds when you exercise. Now the body uses those for signalling. It’s almost like, Hey, we’ve done this to the body. This is the signalling thing that tells the body, address this, get better at it or improve so that next time we do this, you know we can handle it better. 

Tyler

00:22:55 – 00:23:40

So I think a lot of the research in endurance athletes shows like a potentially reduced vour VO2 max, or at least a less of an increase or an improvement in VO2 max with training so it can potentially blunt some of those You know, those mitochondrial adaptations you do to be able to produce energy while like through oxidative metabolism and things like that. So, um, I guess what I’m getting out there is it might potentially reduce some of those training benefits. Uh, from my understanding of the research. It was from high dose antioxidants, not just vitamins. That’s a good point. Um, there was vitamins, vitamin E, I believe, used in conjunction with vitamin C. So I don’t think the research is as strong if it’s just vitamin C. So that’s one consideration. 

Tyler        

00:23:40 – 00:24:17

Um, the other thing like you mentioned is it does reduce dom, so that might be worth it. Like if you can find a good balance between reducing Dom’s training more, Um, you’re potentially going to get some other training adaptations outside of just VO2. Max. When we look at lifters, who cares about vo two Max for lifters? We are, Yeah, we don’t need cardio. Um, so I don’t personally see it as being a problem, but it is something worth thinking about in terms of timing. So why take the risk? Why would you take it just before exercise? If it is potentially going to blunt your, um you know your adaptations to those. So let’s take it in the morning. If we’re training in the afternoon for training 

Tyler

00:24:17 – 00:24:47

in the evening, take it. I know a couple of hours later, before bed or something, Something along those lines. So, um, apart from that, though, there is one good reason to take it just before training. And that’s to promote collagen synthesis. If we are using a college and loading protocol, Um, so you know, you’ve got to weigh all these benefits. It’s like one do reduce dumps. Cool. That could be worthwhile to me. Um, I like to do I care about VO2 max Or if that’s affected, which is mainly what the research shows that you know, affecting.

Tyler

00:24:47 – 00:25:07

Um, not really for us. So, you know, it might not really be a concern. And then I guess the third one is Do we want to try and prioritise things like your tendon and ligament repair through a college in prime in protocol because if we do, we know that we need to time collagen and vitamin C appropriately, and that’s within a pretty close time frame of when you’re going out to exercise. 

Aidan

00:25:11 – 00:25:27

If I have a lifter who wants to take it, I’ll usually just put it separately in the day like a separate thing, not close to the time of lifting. Obviously, as you mentioned, they have a high dose sense in their system for 24 hours or whatever. They still have some in their system, but it is a bit of damage communication, if there is any at all. 

Aidan

00:25:27 – 00:26:00

Um, this gonna sound real bro science, but like there’s a lot of high level bodybuilders who have high dose vitamin C around lifting and they still make games. So it’s like it’s not a powerful effect, like if it is a real effect, there’s probably not a big deal. And then, based on that kind of stance of like, maybe it’s a concern, maybe it’s not. But even if it is. It’s not a big deal. That’s where I come into the collagen, where it’s like, Well, if I’ve got conviction about this whole collagen thing, we’re like taking collagen pre workout alongside vitamin C and then having that help with college in our body, for example, tendons, ligaments, etc. 

Aidan

00:26:01 – 00:26:12

If that is a thing that is going to work, the effect of that is going to be relatively significant versus the potential small, detrimental effects of this. So it’s kind of like it outweighs that base, sure magnitude of effect.

Tyler

00:26:12 – 00:26:47

And then we look at as we just we did touch on it just before. But 50% reduced incidence of like cold and flu for, you know, athletes or exercising population. So that’s potentially, you know, worth taking it for as well, like what’s going to be, you know, more meaningful. Will you get a very small if any reduced training adaptation from anyone training session or you’re gonna get sick for a week? And what kind of training adaptation affects is that going to have? So I think that’s worth taking into consideration as well. Personally, I Yeah, I’m a big believer, and I’ll take it every day. 

Aidan

00:26:48 – 00:27:09

The last thing I want to talk on is like the whole criticism that a lot of people have a vitamin C. They talk about being a water soluble vitamin. When you have too much, you just paired out what is like you’ve touched on this. And if people read between the lines that are kind of like understand already. But you talked about the whole increasing, um, plasma levels as the vitamin C increases, right? Yeah. 

Tyler

00:27:09 – 00:27:45

So I hate this argument like you’re taking multivitamins. All you’re doing is making expensive urine. I think that is a fundamental misunderstanding of how a lot of nutrients are used by the body. How many roles that they do have in the body, Um, and how uptake of those nutrients works. So vitamin C, for example, there are transporters in your small intestine which transport the vitamin C from your intestinal cavities into your bloodstream across the other side of that barrier. They can become saturated. You can maximally you can basically maxed those out so you can’t kind of get any more vitamin C in any faster. 

Tyler

00:27:46 – 00:28:26

that’s kind of like a It’s almost like an exponential curve of how much you will absorb based on how much is in there. So if you take a small amount of vitamin C like we saw 200 milligrams is going to take your plasma levels up to somewhere around 90. Um, to get double that, you need to take six times the amount of vitamin C, so that means you’re proportionately not absorbing nearly as much as you were at the smaller dose. Um, to then get a maximum plasma of to 20. Um, it’s only an extra 40 million more, but you have to take nearly three times the amount again to get that last 40 million more in there. So, yes, you are paying more out. 

Tyler

00:28:26 – 00:29:04

You aren’t absorbing that all, but you’re still not reaching the maximum amount that you can take up. So if you do want to reach those maximum amounts, you gotta supplement. And sure you’re gonna be some out. Um, but that’s the only way you can get up to those higher amounts. Um, the analogy I like to give That’s kind of it kind of fits, but like if you think about protein when we take in a high amount of protein. We do increase the amount of nitrogen we pee out, which is from metabolising, the protein. You never hear anyone saying, Uh oh, you’re doing by eating more protein is making expensive p. No, we we increase protein above the R D I because we have a specific kind of goal that we want with that protein. We want to build muscle tissue. We want a couple from training, 

Tyler

00:29:04 – 00:29:25

Um, in the same way that I like to think about taking vitamins like we’re increasing them with the specific reason behind increasing them. And that’s to optimise performance. Let’s take more and not just get by on the minimum. Um, that’s kind of my perspective on it. It’s just like a pet hate of mine when people, like all you’re doing is creating expensive. You’re right, and it’s like, Okay, well, I don’t think you understand quite How this works. 

Aidan

00:29:25 – 00:29:41

Yeah, it’s just a new ones, like there’s a lot of black and white thinkers out there, but like it can be both. It can be diminishing returns. Yes, without being No, this is the line. And once you get there, once you go about the idea, there’s no additional benefit like it can be both. Like that can be diminishing returns. Yeah, You still get additional benefit for sure. 

Tyler

00:29:41 – 00:30:03

It’s like, Okay, I’m taking my million dollar concentration. My blood from 1 82 to 20. What’s that? Last 40? Giving me the 1st 180 didn’t. Is it worth taking? Yeah, 66 times. The vitamin C might not be for you, so Yeah, it’s not a blanket recommendation by any means that everybody needs to max out their vitamin and mineral uptake. 

Aidan

00:30:04 – 00:30:15

But yeah, I do think there is nuances to that for sure we’ll wrap things up there. This has been Episode 29 of the ideal nutrition podcast. Hopefully, you enjoyed this deep dive on vitamin C, and hopefully, some of you found it interesting.