Podcast Episode 27 Transcript – Caffeine and Performance

Aidan

00:00:00 – 00:00:41

Hello. And welcome back to Episode 27 of the ideal nutrition podcast. Today I’m here with a new co-host. So I’m here with Tyler Brooks, who is also a dietitian at Ideal Nutrition, and we are going to be talking about caffeine and performance. So we’re going to be talking through things such as what caffeine is, how it works, how it can help and why it is useful potential downsides of it. And then also some other kind of miscellaneous stuff alongside that, too. Do you want to keep yourself Tyler , What do we want to start with? 

Tyler

00:00:41 – 00:01:26

Sure. So we might just start with a bit of a general overview about caffeine, a bit of an intro, some background and what it does. So essentially, caffeine is one of the most widely consumed central nervous system stimulants. Um, it’s found naturally in tea, coffee and various other compounds. You’ll also find it in a lot of soft drinks. Coke, Pepsi, things  that. Um, it’s primary action or the way it works is through basically its interaction with the adenosine receptor. So the dentist in receptor is something that sort of regulates your arousal status or how tired or wait for you feel so basically, a denizen turns into Gabba in the body, which then inhibits the arousal neurons now that promotes sleepiness. 

Tyler

00:01:26 – 00:02:13

Caffeine blocks that essentially so caffeine is getting in the way of those sort of processes in your body that make you feel a bit more sleepy or promote that sleepiness effect. So it basically inhibits that, um, caffeine also can kind of have this effect where it stimulates adrenaline production. Or it kind of gives you that fight or flight type of response as well. So that’s just some of the ways its kind of it works. Or it kind of increases wakefulness, alertness, those sorts of things in terms of its effectiveness as a performance supplement. It’s what we class as a group, a performance supplement. So that means it’s very well studied. It has a good body of evidence, and it’s got a very strong supporting evidence base for its effects terms of use in sport. 

Tyler

00:02:14 – 00:02:27

That also means its legal Um, basically, it used to be a banned substance in places  the N. C. Double A or collegiate athletes do set limits for its upper amount of intake in other sports. It’s legal at any dosage and is widely recognised as a beneficial performance enhancer. 

Aidan

00:02:27 – 00:02:39

What kind of dosage to recommend to iou have to have to get to that because I saw,  in water and stuff  that, , used to be pretty high. You’d have to get before it’s going to show up. Um, but how hard you think they’d have to go?

Tyler

00:02:39 – 00:02:59

I think you’d have to purposely try and get to that  you wouldn’t reach it just through natural supplementation or natural consumption through food. The limits set high enough so that that’s not a concern and something you have to worry about just with the general intake. Um, you’d have to be really pushing the limits of supplementation to get up to that sort of illegal dose. 

Aidan

00:02:59 – 00:03:30

Yeah, because I was  partly in prep for this but yourself itself,  I was looking at  a book on caffeine,  a real, real deep dive  Bend Israel style,  it was him, Louise Burke and all that kind of stuff they were talking about,  how high dresses  people were previously using around the time wider bandit and stuff  that. And it was  we’re going to talk about, , doses anywhere from, , 12, maybe as high as nine milligrams per kilo. And it seemed to be  the nine plus milligrams per kilo,  some people were using. Yeah, 

Tyler

00:03:30 – 00:03:49

Typically,  that, sort of. I guess intake is potentially where some of the side effects and negative impacts do become more relevant to. So not only is it not really worth taking it potentially from a side effect risk? Um, in those sort of specific sports, you do potentially cross that threshold of banned substance, then, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Aidan

00:03:49 – 00:04:09

So right now, most sports no, no limit. But , it’s kind of a , as you said, there is. Downside are going higher. And it’s kind of  a bit of a curve where if you go really, really high, probably not getting any additional benefits and the positive Sorry, the negatives are getting to the point that they outweigh the benefits, Really? So I don’t really need to worry about it anyway in those sports. Yeah, 

Tyler

00:04:09 – 00:04:11

I think it’s kind of a good point. Essentially. 

Aidan

00:04:11 – 00:04:21

Yeah. So speaking of those ranges. So  what type of ranges would you be using for different situations? So different situations? 

Tyler

00:04:21 – 00:05:03

Now this is the thing with caffeine is very much a dose dependent relationship with some of those performance enhancing benefits versus some of your more standard reasons,  people take it on a day to day.  if you’re just having a cup of coffee, you’re probably somewhere in that 1 to 3 milligrams per kilogram dosage. And that’s good for promoting wakefulness, giving you a little bit of a pick me up in the morning, those sorts of things. But we typically don’t see the specific performance enhancing benefits that we would see at higher doses. So for those doses were looking somewhere generally between three at the minimum, anywhere up to nine milligrams per kilogram. As you mentioned, um, in practice, I typically tend to favour somewhere around the 3 to 6 million, nine times more than I’d ever go with. 

Tyler

00:05:05 – 00:05:14

Anybody  99 is extreme, and I don’t think I’ve even gone that high. And I love dozing myself and playing around some of this supplementation. But nine is quite extreme. 

Aidan

00:05:14 – 00:05:31

Yeah, the way I can say is  the 1 to 3 is where you’re getting that kind of that weight for this benefit. You also getting that kind of  reduced perceived effort to a certain degree kind of benefit as well. And then,  between three and six, you’re getting some of these even higher kind of little benefits to.

Tyler

00:05:31 – 00:06:05

Yeah, so some of those potential benefits we look at our things  your you have a better pain threshold. So things that will feel hard, I feel  they’re hurting energy. Um, if it’s a kind of grueling workout, it will feel easier. So you’re kind of ought to regulate if you’re used to training at a certain level up to the point  if you’re pushing yourself and it’s hard and it feels  it sucks, but that’s where you know you need to be to get the most benefit out of your workout, it will feel a little bit easier, and that will potentially flow into you being able to push a little bit harder, potentially access some of those training stimulus that you might not have without.

Tyler

00:06:05 – 00:06:16

um, we also see things  increases in one Rep. Max increases in repetition. Still failure. So there, you know there’s a variety of those kind of performance enhancing benefits out those higher doses. 

Aidan

00:06:16 – 00:06:54

Yeah, and , let’s put into context around that as well. So, , I’m going to make the dose really easy for myself. Let’s say I’ve got somebody who’s 100kg And let’s say we’re aiming for 300 milligrams or three milligrams per kilo. In that case, 300 milligrams. Um, the way I view it is a cup of coffee. This is a complicated one. I shouldn’t start with this, but a cup of coffee. I see this around 80 to 100 milligrams, but as you know,  based on  the Mendez real stuff we’re looking at,  the espressos on the Gold Coast, anywhere from  somewhere around 25 to 200 milligrams. Huge variations. Yeah, they were , just  basically all they didn’t study. 

Aidan

00:06:54 – 00:07:18

Was they asked for an espresso, no further details unless it was asked for further details? And what they were given was anywhere between 2500 milligrams crazy. But other stuff  no dose, typically 100 milligrams a 250 mil energy drinks  Red Bull or something  that. We’re looking at 80 milligrams. So if you had a 500 mil energy drink, that’s 160. So if you’re aiming for about 300 milligrams, you’re looking at two of those talking about a letter of energy drinks. 

Tyler

00:07:18 – 00:07:21

Enjoy that carbonation while you’re squatting or dead lifting. 

Aidan

00:07:21 – 00:07:57

Yeah, so it’s  there’s some practicalities coming here,  with the caffeine thing through coffee. It’s  if you’re looking at , say, you wanted to go with some of these higher ranges  the 5 to 7 kind of milligram particular range, which seems to be pretty beneficial for one rep Max performance and stuff  that. If you use a coffee and you’ve got the dosage wrong  you got to , because there is that variation,  it could go pretty far in either direction, whereas,  with energy drinks or something  that,  it’s pretty locked in  it is what it is. That’s the amount of caffeine that’s in there, is pretty well controlled, but you got the carbonation issue. 

Aidan

00:07:57 – 00:08:03

No Doz is a way around that. Other supplements include caffeine gum. I’ve never used that with people, but that also works as well. 

Tyler

00:08:03 – 00:08:42

Yeah, caffeine comes a good one, just on some of those variation in terms of the sources of your caffeine pre workout, I also see as a relatively variable or an inconsistent source, even if you have a look at your directions. It’s , okay, once group is 300 milligrams, you don’t really know how homogeneous that mix or how well mixed that caffeine is throughout your pre workout. You see pre workouts clump. Um, you see them being more powdery at the top, versus more grainy at the bottom sometimes. So when you’re taking that scoop, you know how much of that scoop is caffeine compared to the proportion of the other ingredients? Is it 300 or you getting to 40 and some scripts and 320 some scripts and things  that practically.

Tyler

00:08:42 – 00:09:16

It probably doesn’t make a huge difference. But if you’re trying to be specific with this dozing, um, I do  the use of things  your gum or, you know, does pills just because they do give you that specific dose. Um, and I was just punching in some calculations there because I couldn’t remember off the top of my head. But we do work with some big athletes as well. So when you think about heavyweight power lifters or even rugby players and things  that, where these guys are pushing well up over 100 kilograms Um, you know, it is a lot of caffeine to take in, potentially even at that six milligrams per kilogram. 

Tyler

00:09:16 – 00:09:40

Um, an example that I was just punching and then that I love is, um, one of my guys who’s a heavyweight lifter. He’s kind of over experimentation through training, we found the six milligram per kilogram dose works really well for him. Now he’s 175 kilograms, so that’s a straight up gram of caffeine. That’s 1000 and 50 milligrams of caffeine. So, divide that by an 80 milligram energy drink. If you’re trying to get that in Red Bull’s, that’s 13. Red Bull’s good luck with that. 

Tyler

00:09:41 – 00:09:45

So, let’s go caffeine pills. You know, some of those are easier dicing methods 

Aidan

00:09:45 – 00:09:55

That’s what I . I find interesting about the difference in size  I’ve got one left to compete in the 48 kg weight class. And it’s  we actually , I’m not going to do the math’s and there’s, , a couple of Red Bulls and she’s actually at, , half an espresso and yeah.

Aidan

00:09:58 – 00:10:08

Yeah, for sure. And  I do also wonder. I don’t know if you know more about this than me, but,  do bigger people. Is it the same dosage per kilo? Does it work out the same? 

Tyler

00:10:08 – 00:10:54

Yeah, I’ve often thought about that. I haven’t looked into any specific research specifically on that, but I do think about that. So the dentist and receptor is obviously the main mechanism action that caffeine is acting on. So if you have more tissue, you’re going to have more of those receptors potentially, um, in terms of absolute size of the brain that might play some sort of role in how many receptors are being expressed in the brain. Um, but I’d probably lean towards there is some sort of fall off,  at some point, you probably don’t need exponentially more. If you’re a much heavier bodyweight, I’d say there probably would be some wiggle room to take it down a little bit, especially if a lot of that extra body weight is coming from body fat, which is obviously expressing denizen receptors.

Tyler

00:10:54 – 00:11:02

Yeah. So there are those considerations. For sure you might not need those higher doses specifically, if you are up at those big body weights all the time.

Aidan

00:11:02 – 00:11:37

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And that’s something that I was thinking about as well. And  another point on that as well. It’s  the point you made about trial and error. I think it’s very much a trial. Um, me personally, I actually do for slightly lower doses of caffeine on in terms of these ranges for lower range. But that’s a trial and everything for sure. I think if you’re going to be in whatever sport you’re doing, if it’s going to benefit from caffeine, you should try out the higher range. You kind of need to go too far to kind of find that sweet spot. Um, I personally tried it out. I’ll try that with some other people. And, I think if you’re going to do competition after competition after competition, you should try out different doses.

Aidan

00:11:37 – 00:11:46

You should try it lower. Try higher. Find what also works best. Because even though the evidence does show this, it’s also pretty individual because there is these drawbacks which we’re going to talk about later, too. 

Tyler

00:11:46 – 00:12:31

Yeah, definitely. It’s hugely individual. Um, you can go down that rabbit hole of real specific prescription nutrition, and that’s something I loved eking out on. So, um, I have my genome mapped, and you can find the polymorphisms in your specific genes that will dictate how quickly you metabolise caffeine. So things how long before training should you dose it? Specifically, we have these general recommendations about dozing times, but this will give you a much better idea. Um, in terms of how quickly metabolise it also kind of, um will help you dictate what sort of anxiety performance risk you might have it. Those higher doses, which is one of the side effects, will touch on more later. But you can map your genome and your genes will somewhat dictate how you will respond to that level of caffeine dozing. 

Tyler

00:12:31 – 00:13:02

So, you know, in one athlete that might you might see a higher risk of performance anxiety. You go. Okay, Cool. We can use these talks in training when it’s a bit more chill and there’s not as much on the line. But then for competition, we might pull it back. Um, it still means you’ll get the benefit through training when it’s less of a stressful situation and you’re still training at a higher level and looking in those exercise performance increases. But then when it comes to competition, if it’s going to give you so much anxiety that you might underperform, we can pull it back for that and just dial it back to a more modest dose or a dose. We know that won’t cause that effect.

Aidan

00:13:02 – 00:13:24

Yeah, because I want to go through a few things, then I actually want to bring that back to Palestine as well. So, let’s keep it simple. So, you’ve got to stay one rep Max attempt average person because you just talked about all the differences. But just on average, when should you time your caffeine? Why should you time it there and also talking about half-life, How long is it in your system? So we started. When should you time it? 

Tyler

00:13:24 – 00:13:42

So timing wise. Typically, it’s going to be somewhere between 30 to 60 minutes, where it’s going to peak in your system. Um, so you know those people you see taking pre workout as their stepping out onto the gym floor? You’re probably not getting the effects of that pre workout or the full effects from the caffeine in the pre workout unless you warm up for half an hour. You chat. 

Tyler

00:13:44 – 00:13:56

Yeah, for sure, if you’re doing those things, but, you know, outside of power lifting in the gym, don’t do that. They’ll do one or two warm up sets on the bar, walking a treadmill for three minutes and then their into their weight.

Tyler

00:13:59 – 00:14:17

For sure, you got to put your head into these Jim pop tunes occasionally, but yeah, so somewhere between 30 to 60 minutes, um, I usually kind of work it out that it’s going to peak at about 60 minutes in terms of the amount of caffeine that’s in your blood, Um, and starting to affect those the dentist and receptors, so usually a time at around about 60 minutes. 

Aidan

00:14:17 – 00:14:24

And if you if you’re using a caffeine gummy is the general of thumb, half that time, absorbs a little bit quicker. 

Tyler

00:14:24 – 00:14:56

I think there is a slightly faster absorption through, the veins under the tongue. Yeah. So when you’re sort of absorbing it through those thin membranes underneath the tongue in the mouth and orally, as opposed to it travelling from your stomach into your intestines and being absorbed there, I believe it is a slightly quicker effect. Um, it’s pretty uncommon to use the gum and the breast strips compared to something  a pre workout, and they I know does. So I wouldn’t know exact numbers off the top. My head. It’s not one of those ones have committed to memory. Yeah. Do you know, have you looked into that? 

Aidan

00:14:56 – 00:15:00

Specifically, would Ravies energy strips putting them under the tongue we used to use Ravi’s at the Broncos?

Tyler

00:15:00 – 00:15:23

Yeah, for that reason. And we’d take those, literally, just after they finished their warmup, before they’d be running onto the field or just before training, So yeah, um but then again, we didn’t measure blood levels of caffeine or you know how it was affecting them. But the rebels are also um, they’re not that higher dose. There are relatively lower dose of Yeah. So they were more just to pick me up and wakefulness type thing for those boys rather than.

Aidan

00:15:23 – 00:15:47

I think they’ve got 100 to 100 Milligram ones out. Now they do. They send them out in the last night. Yeah. There’s no very cost effective. Yeah. Um okay, so I think it’s a half half life. So half life. How long does it typically stay in the system? You said there’s quicker and metabolises, but yeah. 

Tyler

00:15:47 – 00:16:01

So on average, we look for somewhere between I usually say it’s four hours. Obviously, there’s going to be a fair bit of variation between that. Some people think 4 to 6. Some people think 3 to 6, but we usually put it at around about that four. Unless we’ve done some testing and no, otherwise half would be out of your system in four hours.

Tyler

00:16:03 – 00:16:23

So in the half life that’s half out of your system in four hours. Um, now, this has a few different sort of considerations. One would be around what time you’ve taken the caffeine, and will it potentially affect your sleep later on? If you’re taking a big dose, if you’re looking at that six milligrams per kilogram dose for those 100 kg guys and they’ve taken 600 milligrams even if a quarter is in your system when you go to see a lot.

Tyler

00:16:25 – 00:16:51

So say you take it at five PM or six. PM A lot of people train after work. Six PM That means at 10 PM if you’ve taken 600 milligrams, you’ve still got 300 milligrams in your system. That’s like three coffees just before bed. Um and then that’s kind of affecting you later into the night as well as that 300 milligrams. Four hours later, you got half that again. So even by  you know one AM, you’ve still got some caffeine in your system. 

Tyler

00:16:51 – 00:17:20

If you are doing those high doses late at night, something to consider, even if you can fall asleep and it doesn’t affect your sleep quality so much, um, it will potentially affect your quality of sleep, you might not get as much restful sleep as much deep sleep, for example. So that’s a consideration. Um, the other consideration that I think about with half life is if we have a long competition day, such as power lifting, where it’s a six hour if you’re there at the gym from nine till three or nine until four PM 

Tyler

00:17:20 – 00:17:49

Sometimes if it’s a big comp, should you reduce it because you do have significantly less in your system by the end of the day, and this is something I do with my athletes. We tend to look at reducing half the dose to align with the rough half lifetime, but we rewind that by about an hour. Considering that however taste it’s going to take that long to peak in your system. So we go three hours, we re does half the amount so that you potentially topping back up to that full blood level of caffeine an hour later at that half lifetime. So that’s kind of one of the other considerations. 

Aidan

00:17:49 – 00:18:23

Yeah, I do the exact same one practice and then competitions. The question I’ve always had in my mind, and I don’t really know the answer to I think it’s pretty individual is So you were looking at just a random one,  six milligrams per kilogram for this person and this athlete being the perfect dose of them. But then, as you said there, there from nine AM to four PM on a long day, being amped off that entire time, how does that affect people? I do wonder that being  the red dosage thing  that is exactly what I do. But I’m, Is this good for some? People are not as good for others potentially.

Tyler

00:18:23 – 00:18:42

And there is also a lot of people who are I cannot sleep after comp night. Um, and I’m my perspective on that is, who cares? You performed on comedy that sleep well that night for one night. Um, if you’ve hit a 5% higher one rap attempt on your squat dead lift or whatever it is, yeah, it’s , yeah, we’ll sacrifice that. 

Aidan

00:18:42 – 00:19:02

And that’s a good thing about polishing, because it’s  other sports,  you’re competing  every weekend or whatever it’s . Well, now you’re  one out of seven days. You’re not sleeping well where it’s  a power lifting  you do a 12 week or more prep , Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, okay. So onto other stuff I guess we’ll be talking about 

Aidan

00:19:02 – 00:19:37

I suppose we’ve covered most of the downsides, Really? So, anxiety,  my rules of caffeine are typically if it doesn’t affect sleep and anxiety. Um, or to a certain degree, nutrient absorption was big on that, but, say, iron absorption, potentially, I’m not overly concerned about that. I do want to touch on the sleep. One night I heard Allen Flanagan on Sigma Nutrition Use this line, It’s always stuck with me. A lot of people with caffeine have cognitive dissonance in terms of when it comes to their sleep in terms of a lot of people that will disrupt their sleep. But if you ask a lot of people, do you think it affects your safe? The answer is no. 

Tyler

00:19:37 – 00:20:17

Yeah and I think this goes back a little bit, too. That sleep latency versus sleep quality. Just because you’re asleep doesn’t mean you’re getting a good quality sleep. That doesn’t necessarily mean you’re waking up as refreshed as you would without it. So, it’s definitely something to consider. Yeah, I think I’d listen to the same podcast. And after hearing that I stopped taking caffeine for the majority of my sessions. Unless I’m in a Peking block and I’m hitting heavy triples or if I’m pushing really hard in the gym or  for a one off session every now and again, I’ll just dose myself the full five or six milligrams. Otherwise, as a general rule, I tend not to use caffeine as much. Or at least I will dose it earlier in the day. Yes, having less potential effect on that sleep quality later at night. 

Aidan

00:20:17 – 00:20:39

Yeah, for sure. I’ve only sleep so much and yeah, I think the same. I guess I want to talk about, , the miscellaneous stuff,  a leader to earlier. So, let’s talk about so we’re going to talk about from a weight loss perspective in terms of how could it help weight loss  there’s two potential routes that we could see one in terms of  the effects of metabolism, which is often claimed and the other is appetite suppressant, which one of those who want to start with.

Tyler

00:20:39 – 00:21:09

Um, I’d probably start with something the appetite suppressant. Um, I think again that’s going to come down to somewhat individual variation. Um, but basically, caffeine is purported to suppress appetite. So the idea with weight loss is, if you’re on a high dose of caffeine, is potentially going to make you want to eat less. Um, isn’t that simple? There is no magic around it. It’s simply you feel  eating less so you’re probably going to eat less, Um, and thereby consume less calories, thereby put you into more of a calorie deficit and help with that weight loss. 

Aidan

00:21:09 – 00:21:17

Do you think if you do, if you have the same amount of caffeine every single day, do you think it balances out? Or do you think it’s that suppressive effect stays? 

Tyler

00:21:17 – 00:21:38

That’s a really good question. I’ve never personally looked into that one I know there are in terms of performance, which is usually more the context. I look at it, you can become habituated to the facts of caffeine, so you will stop feeling that buzz. But in regard to performance, you still get the performance enhancing benefits. Whether you feel the buzz or not, I’ve never had a look at it in terms of appetite suppressant, have you?

Aidan

00:21:38 – 00:22:06

I’ve looked into it in terms. It’s not really a lot of research specifically on it, but just thinking it through and a combination of the research I’ve seen from other fields and stuff  that, I think it balances out, Um, how this is going to be over, overly simplified. But how are the people who have seven plus black coffees per day and still let a lot of calories if the appetite suppressant thing is there? Because if you get an average person and then get them to have seven black coffees, they’re not going to get a lot of calories that day. 

Aidan

00:22:06 – 00:22:26

I think hunger hormones relatively strongly related to how many calories we have. If you do something that gives you an appetite suppressant effect for a decent period of time, puts you into a calorie deficit, your hunger hormones, then replace or then kind of react in response to that, and that kind of becomes a new baseline. I’m not going to say there’s no appetite suppressant effect that’s still there because I think there would be. But I just think it kind of diminishes if you do it beyond 12 weeks. 

Tyler

00:22:26 – 00:22:43

Yeah, that’s a That’s a really interesting way to look at it in terms of, the body will adapt to the conditions we place upon it yourself. We’re placing that constant high intake of caffeine to suppress appetite eventually will potentially adapt to that. Appetite will level back out. Yeah, that’s an interesting way to think about it. 

Aidan

00:22:43 – 00:23:05

But that’s also if I am right there because I’m super open to being wrong on that If I am right on that, it doesn’t mean we can’t use it for phases  for sure why, you probably don’t want to be in the colour of just over 12 weeks straight in most circumstances anyway,  it’s still useful for phases  if you’re on higher colours for certain phases, maybe you have less caffeine for that purpose. If you’re in lower colours may be used more for that purpose. 

Tyler

00:23:05 – 00:23:13

Yeah, for sure, definitely worth thinking about in terms of overall strategy, things that might make dieting a little bit easier at some stage. 

Aidan

00:23:13 – 00:23:39

So yeah, so I suppose very quickly going through metabolism stuff. I think of it as a 1% boost in metabolism. I think there’s more, more scientific. Do you have numbers on it or anything that? No, I’ve never looked at the specific, so I’ve looked into it. I think comes out just over a 1% boost in terms of metabolism, and it’s , Well, that’s cool. That’s a little bit of a boost. Like total daily energy expenditure  that could make creating calorie just a tiny bit easier. 

Tyler

00:23:39 – 00:23:45

But does it really matter about how many calories you tell you? If it’s a 2000 calorie diet? What you get? An extra 200 calories? 

Tyler

00:23:49 – 00:23:52

Yeah, 20 calories. What are you going to do with that? 

Aidan

00:23:52 – 00:23:53

Yeah, it’s not really a look of the apple, you know. Yeah, 

Aidan

00:23:55 – 00:24:07

The appetite suppressing stuff far more significant than that. Yeah, it’s cool boost, But is it worth the side effects and everything? We just kind of talked about to get that small boost. The other thing we’re going to briefly touch on is things that could potentially help bring you back down from some of the negatives.

Aidan

00:24:08 – 00:24:36

One example that I use during universities not quite, study drug. But a study boost I use caffeine just like most people do. But there’s one called healthy when it’s in tea, naturally, but not in a high enough dose. It should really do much. But if you supplement it separately, it offsets some of the negatives of caffeine, including the jitteriness heart rate that normally increases all these,  little things, so allows you get this kind of focus benefit. We’ve got some outside stuff. 

Tyler

00:24:36 – 00:24:44

Yeah, that’s a great one. Ever looked into that along with caffeine as a performance supplement or at the same time, ameliorate any of the performance benefits? I’ve looked into it briefly for, golfers and, arches and those fine motor skills type sports.

Aidan

00:24:50 – 00:24:57

Yeah, and it makes sense from that perspective. But I’ve been looking too deeply because I haven’t had many people who are elite and that for me to care enough about yeah, right.

Tyler

00:24:57 – 00:25:00

I know the next rabbit hole. I’m going down and the other one briefly is ashwagandha.

Aidan

00:25:00 – 00:25:27

Um, so that is a herb. So it’s an Indian herb. It’s got a lot of positive kind of hype behind it. A lot of positive studies, but it’s I’m not fully sold on it, but it basically can make you calmer, offset some anxiety. So it’s got a lot of positive research from anxiety perspective. But once again, a lot of research is coming out of India. 

Aidan

00:25:27 – 00:25:44

Yes, and some of the studies that I’ve read they didn’t even make sense in terms of they measured depression. But they include people in the study that didn’t have depression. What are we even talking about that’s going to change the results? Yeah, there’s a lot of low-quality studies like that. So I’m still waiting a bit on actually going to. But for some people who want to try and I’m looking as an option, yeah, I think the research is starting to make a little bit more.

Tyler

00:25:44 – 00:26:12

As you say, there’s still more and more coming out, and some of these kinds of positive indicators sort of stimulate more research to be done on it. Um, I personally do. Take it. My coach recommended it to actually as, um yeah, as one of these sorts of come down type things to help reduce those effects of caffeine. Um, before I recommend anything to clients, I usually to try it out myself. So yeah, anecdotally, personally, it’s not something you feel it won’t put you to sleep.

Tyler

00:26:12 – 00:26:43

It’s not a sleeping pill or something like that. Um, I do track my sleep, and I found that when I do take it, my quality of sleep, whether it be placebo, because I know that I’ve taken it or whatever other mechanisms, um, I do tend to sleep a little bit better with it. And like you said, there’s enough research out there in terms of anxiety reduction and things that that I am sort of comfortable recommending it in some circumstances. But I’m very happy to change my opinion on it. If you know the research comes out refusing that.

Aidan

00:26:43 – 00:27:19

Yeah, I completely agree with that. I’ve played around with a little bit just because one skin scenting, I’d like to recommend things, something that I personally consider is that a lot of the benefits associated with ashwagandha seem to be byproducts of stress reduction. It seems to be, for example, there is research showing it increases test Australian research showing it increases strength. I’d like to be stronger, if I truly did think that was going to help, that I’d actually take it solely for that purpose. More than just playing around, I’d be consistent with it. But I’m pretty lucky. They’ve got no stress in my life. It’s pretty stress free living the dream. So because of that, I don’t actually take it consistently, but it is. 

Aidan

00:27:19 – 00:27:53

It is an interesting option, but I guess we’ll wrap things up there. So that was Episode 27 of the ideal nutrition podcast. Um, it’s been Tyler Brooks who has been co-hosting with me. He’s another dietitian here. He’s also taking on clients as well. So if anybody is interested in that feel free to book in and his instagram handle is at lift underscore dietetics. Is that the one? So I’m perfect. Well, thank you to Everybody is listening. And if I could please encourage you to leave a rating and review that would be greatly appreciated.