Podcast Episode 28 Transcript – Keto

Aidan

00:00:00 – 00:00:47

Hello and welcome to Episode 28 of The Ideal Nutrition Podcast. Today we’re gonna be talking about the ketogenic diet and ketosis. Once again, I am with new co-host Tyler Brooks. Who he’s gonna be doing another podcast after this one as well. So we’ll be doing three total partly because, honestly, I want to take a holiday. So I’m putting out some extra content, basically, or banking some extra content in advance so that while I’m on holidays, we’ll have stuff lined up. And while Leah is on holidays as well, actually and then after that, she will be back for future podcast. So as mentioned today, we’re gonna be talking about ketosis. What is it and some basic background on it. 

Tyler

00:00:47 – 00:01:34

Sure so, first of all, ketosis is basically a it’s kind of like a metabolic state that the body goes into after you have had a certain period of time without access to carbohydrates. Um, it’s clinically measured by a certain number of key tones. Typically, we would class it as like above three millimolar. I believe, is kind of an ideal state to aim for with being classes being in ketosis? Um, yeah, above a three millimolar concentration of ketones in the blood. Um, so ketones are the I guess, the byproduct of breaking down fat for energy in the absence of having access to carbohydrates. Um, and there are three basic ketones You’ve got beta-hydroxybutyrate, acetate and acetone. Um, and we use two of those. The beta hydroxybutyrate and acetate support energy production.

Tyler

00:01:34 – 00:02:21

Basically, it’s an alternative energy source instead of glucose that the body and the brain or the I guess the cells, including the brain, can use for energy. Um, give ketogenic diet has kind of clinical origin. So it’s not just a fad fat loss, diet or weight loss. Diet was actually used clinically. Um, back, I think, as early as around about the 1920s to treat epilepsy, Um, in particular, in the paediatric population or in Children. Um, so it has this kind of effect where you will see seizures, uh, seizure reductions in epileptic patients. Um, and in Children, that’s particularly useful. Instead of exposing to various medications which have quite serious side effects at times, um, you can simply through dietary intervention, help manage seizure frequency.

Tyler

00:02:21 – 00:02:59

And you know all these sorts of things so clinically, it was kind of useful back in the day to help manage seizures. Um, that did have some flow over into adult populations. And some, obviously it works for adults as well, but typically not as a first line treatment usually start with medications there. But anyway, yeah, Keto diet has sort of clinical origins, but in more recent years it was sort of popularised by various personalities. Um, you might have heard of the Atkins diet, which is a kind of high fat diet, Um, obviously popularised by Atkins himself. What’s his first name? 

Aidan

00:02:59 – 00:02:59

I don’t know 

Tyler

00:03:01 – 00:03:29

Anyway, So he’s obviously popularised this idea of the high fat diet. And, you know, quite a lot of people found it successful for weight loss. Um, since there’s been various other personalities that have promoted it and made it even more mainstream, So people like Joe Rogan and various guess his had on his podcast has been quite a few, you know, well regarded or high level scientists and researchers that kind of favour a ketogenic diet approach, various bio mackers, ketogenic diet and all of these sorts of things have made it a bit more mainstream.

Tyler

00:03:29 – 00:03:48

Um, but yeah, basically, to wrap it up Quick Summary. It’s high fat diet. Um, you have to go high fat to the point where you’re severely restricting carbohydrates enough to the point where your body is going to produce ketones as an alternative energy source. Those ketones are produced through breaking down body fat. 

Aidan

00:03:49 – 00:04:27

So, yeah, I was listening to Tim Ferriss. Dominic D’Agostino. So back in, I think it’s 2015. I went way back into archive, and it’s really interesting because he said, like high level scientists Dominic Agostino. He’s a smart guy, very smart, way smarter than I am, and he actually sounds quite appealing. And like even some of the studies he was referencing because like this is like, way off and attention. But like thoughts on building key to building muscle on the ketogenic diet like my understanding is like there’s not many of those like studies that have ever been done. You hear him talk about and you hear him talk about as if it’s like it’s a big possibility. He himself is 100 kg, and like I haven’t seen him, but it seems pretty just like, 

Tyler

00:04:27 – 00:04:34

yeah, I’ve only seen him on the video podcasts and Rogan and that, and he’s not small. He doesn’t look like he’s fading away to a shadow. He’s got some muscle mass. 

Aidan

00:04:34 – 00:04:47

Yeah, also, just on a sudden. But he’s talking about like having 300 grammes of fat per day. Which fat has nine calories per gram. So nine times three. That’s like 2700 calories just coming from fat inside. 

Tyler

00:04:47 – 00:04:48

Yeah, it’s huge. 

Aidan

00:04:48 – 00:05:00

Yeah. Um, yeah. Six. So I suppose one question I was having with the like seizures and stuff like that. Is there, like, medication resistant seizures? Is that a thing as well? 

Tyler

00:05:00 – 00:06:03

Yeah, there is. So, you know, seizures are classified or epilepsy are classified into various categories. So based on how resistant to seizure treatment drugs the epilepsy is, um, you know, you’ll be categorised under certain levels of seriousness, the most serious being it’s called SRSE. Yeah, As I mentioned, ketogenic diet isn’t usually a frontline or first approach for treating seizures in adult populations. It’s usually implemented if there have been unsuccessful attempts to control seizures with medications and things like that. Um, SRSE is typically, um, a resistance to or like a continued seizure, even with multiple levels of anti-seizure medications. Um, there is research out there showing that if you jump onto a ketogenic diet, as in a proper therapeutic ketogenic diet, um, you will typically get a seizure reduction, if not a complete freedom of seizures. 

Tyler

00:06:03 – 00:06:45

Like I said, the research kind of shows this in combination or ketogenic diet in combination with the medications, not just ketogenic diet alone. It’s kind of a duty of care thing. You can’t just stop someone’s medications that treating him for a serious illness. Um, but they added to it wasn’t being fixed with the medications alone. Advocate a diet that’s kind of fixed. It’s like, Well, what’s the extra variable? Um, but yeah, the research is kind of hard to interpret because there’s no clear direct link that you can draw and say this is just from the ketogenic time. They could have potentially just got better from being on the medication for longer. Um, that’s probably unlikely soon as it hasn’t been effective. 

Tyler

00:06:45 – 00:06:55

Um, but yeah, that’s just kind of makes the research problematic, but I do believe there’s a relatively good chance that it’s going to have a pretty good clinical outcome if you do jump onto a ketogenic diet with epilepsy, especially in the case of the medication resistant epilepsy. 

Aidan

00:06:55 – 00:07:15

Yeah, and I guess the difference between like a therapeutic ketogenic diet for that and what most people would probably want to do if they were doing it for, say, weight loss or other purposes is probably gonna be the protein content and like getting carbs super, super low, having fat super, super higher and protein like pretty low in the therapeutic sense. 

Tyler

00:07:15 – 00:07:25

Yeah, very much so. So therapeutically. I believe it’s a 4 to 1. So four parts fat to one part combined, um, protein and carbohydrates, 

Aidan

00:07:25 – 00:07:26

like 80%. 

Tyler

00:07:26 – 00:07:46

Basically, yeah, at least, um, and then split the rest between, you know, a small amount of carbohydrates. I believe it’s usually somewhere around about 15% protein, so if you think an 80% fat 15% protein, you’ve got about 5% of your total energy requirement left it. You can come from carbs, Um, and that’s so that the carbohydrates don’t kick you out of ketosis, and so the protein doesn’t keep. 

Tyler

00:07:47 – 00:08:19

Yeah, so that’s one of the common things we do see people do wrong in terms of a non therapeutic approach to it. Or like the general person would get ketogenic diet. They’ll overeat protein or over eat meat. Um, now, certain amino acids can be broken down and turned into carbohydrate. Essentially glucose. Yes, so glucose for gluconate. Genesis, um, and that will kick you out of ketosis if you are striving for a Keto diet. Um, therapeutically, that’s important, obviously, in the seizure control. So they’re quite strict in therapeutic or a hospital ketogenic diet dose.

Aidan

00:08:19 – 00:08:24

It doesn’t matter. For average Joe doesn’t matter, for average show is a matter for like an athlete. 

Tyler

00:08:24 – 00:09:05

I don’t think it does matter if you have a brief sort of dip out of like maximum ketone production through having a little bit of extra protein if you’re over eating it every day, and it’s constantly producing a significant amount of glucose through breaking down protein, and you’re never really getting into ketosis from, you know, too high of a protein intake. It’s a kind of defeats. The purpose a little bit, but if you’re just having a bit of extra protein occasionally. So, for example, if you take quite a large bowlers after a workout like a big serve of protein and that temporarily drops you out of ketosis, I still think you get the majority of the proposed benefits from Keto through general dietary adherence. Just with a few excursions of high protein, I don’t think so. 

Aidan

00:09:05 – 00:09:13

Yeah, cool. So from the weight loss perspective, why, if people stick to it, does it typically work the weight loss? 

Tyler

00:09:14 – 00:09:19

I think now this is again not exact scientific research. Leading questions. 

Tyler

00:09:20 – 00:09:43

I would say that for some people, the approach of like, no wiggle room like with Keto diet there is no room for like one ft in one ft out. You can’t just have a little bit. It’s like, No, you can come at any time or it will screw up the whole night. So for those people who and again, all or nothing approach is sometimes negative lips seat. But for some people, it does work. So if you are the type of person who was like okay, 

Tyler

00:09:43 – 00:10:23

I know I can’t just have two cookies otherwise I’ll eat the whole pack it, so I’ll just have none. So on ketogenic diet, it’s like, Okay, I’ve got a very clear line in the sand. I can’t have any, so sometimes that works. And if you’re sticking to a diet that strictly it’s gonna work like the only diet that works is the one that you adhere to or stick to. It doesn’t matter what it is. Keto, Paleo whatever else. Um, but if you adhere to it, it’s probably going to work. So if you ketogenic diet is set up to be for weight loss, for example, and you’re controlling your calorie intake through not over eating carbohydrates like you might normally tend to, it’s gonna work. Um, there are various misconceptions about loss versus weight loss, which I think we’ll get into. 

Tyler

00:10:23 – 00:10:27

But I think you’re having those real strict guidelines. Works for some people. 

Aidan

00:10:27 – 00:10:51

Yeah, So most people are gonna, incidentally reduce their calorie intake like if you reduce your carbohydrate intake. Not only does it reduce carbohydrate intake, but also, as you said, like, um, cookies cakes like ice creams, like all these other things that aren’t just carbohydrates and fat as well like it gets rid of a lot of hyper palatable foods you get stuck with, like just one macro nutrient. Another thing that people point to is reductions in appetites. Do you see? That’s the thing? 

Tyler

00:10:51 – 00:11:35

Yeah, I think so. We typically look at fat, as we would refer to it as a very satiating macronutrients similar to protein. We do call protein quite a satiating macro nutrient as well. Like, um, that means, obviously it’s filling. It fills you up. It’s sort of ends those or starts to reduce those kind of cues that you get to say that you’re hungry. Keep eating. Being satiated is that sort of reverse of that. It starts to down regulate that drive to eat in that appetite. So the more fat and protein we tend to eat more of that satiation response. We have, um, carbohydrates through this to a much lower degree than the other macronutrients. So there is that potential appetite reduction in terms of obviously the association aspect of it. 

Tyler

00:11:35 – 00:12:17

And then there is also potentially and this might be a bit more subjective, some rather than others, but the blood glucose control you’re not getting these big increases in blood glucose from having a high amount of carbohydrate. Um, that high amount of carbohydrate is causing a production of insulin. If you’ve had a very high amount of carbohydrate, you’re producing a lot of insulin that’s grabbing all that blood glucose out of your bloodstream. Storing it away in your muscles are converting into fat. If you’ve got more than enough carbohydrate already, um, and then you’re gonna have this drive to eat more carbohydrate again because your insulin is pulled everything out of the bloodstream. Um, so there is that sort of aspect of like, um, insulin, control of blood glucose control that might sort of interact with appetite.

Aidan

00:12:17 – 00:12:34

I finally pretty deep topic because, like there was one stage I was looking for, people with malnutrition or just people who struggled again. So that was one idea that was chucked out there being like, Hey, let’s give people like 15 grams of really easy to digest carbohydrates an hour before they met. Based on that theory, that could make them hungry and make them want to eat more food potentially and like, if it actually plays out that way, I think even the research.

Aidan

00:12:35 – 00:12:43

And that’s quite mixed about whether it makes any difference because, like, 15 grams is not enough to fill somebody up, and it could have the same effect. 

Tyler

00:12:43 – 00:12:46

But how much insulin response you’re really getting to? 15 grams. 

Tyler

00:12:47 – 00:12:52

Like a total load of 15 grams. Yeah, I’d sign up for the study, though. It’s an interesting sugar. 

Aidan

00:12:52 – 00:13:32

Yeah, another concept that a lot of people will be talking about is actually, no. There was one thing I did want to touch on that. Hey, so like, there’s a curve ball of a study. I don’t know if you say that. Kevin Hall study. So Kevin Hall did a study comparing low carb diets. I can’t recall the first ketogenic to a higher carbohydrate, low fat, mostly unprocessed diet where they allowed the participants to eat at Liberty. Um, and the people in the higher carbohydrate diet actually ate less calories, which is really, really interesting, and it’s counter to the low carb kind of narrative. But that being said, the reason it stands out is because it is a couple of a study. It’s not what people expected, and it’s like only study I’m aware of showing that 

Tyler

00:13:32 – 00:13:40

Yeah, I haven’t had the study like there are other things that would potentially, you know, I’d want to look at in that study. 

Aidan

00:13:40 – 00:13:40

It depends on the foods. 

Tyler

00:13:40 – 00:13:45

Exactly like were they having high fibre where they have a whole food specifically vegetables, 

Aidan

00:13:45 – 00:13:47

high fibre, whole foods? 

Tyler

00:13:47 – 00:14:01

Yeah. So these sorts of things are obviously gonna have the similar sort of factors like that association effect. We know fibre is quite associating macro, nutrient nutrient as well. I’m I guess you could sort of class it as a macro nutrient. Probably not. 

Aidan

00:14:01 – 00:14:14

It’s a carbohydrate calories as well. Like there’s something like, on average is about two calories. Per gram, which is like another Kovacs, is like we think about having even zero or some people in America is often included as part of their carbohydrates as well. It’s listed differently on the panels. 

Aidan

00:14:16 – 00:14:23

In Australia, it’s not less is less. It’s completely separately, so we often think about having zero, but on average, it has about two. It’s in between those two kind of things anyway.

Tyler

00:14:23 – 00:14:45

Random aside, your father is going to make you feel fully. It’s going to slow down digestion and things like this as well, so that’s potentially going to reduce appetite. If you’re eating lots of fruits and vegetables and whole foods, it’s going to feel your stomach more. It’s more volume for less calories, so I could see there being an interaction there. But it would be very dependent on the types of food choices those people had. 

Aidan

00:14:45 – 00:15:09

Yeah, a boring thing that I’ve got to add. But I think it’s relevant because a lot of people would be like Keto works really well for me, particularly at the start of a diet. or they’ll say, Every time I add carbs, my weight goes up something that like I hate talking about. But it’s something that everyone needs to where it was just like scale, weight fluctuations, carbohydrates, every 2g of  carbohydrates in your store. You store roughly 2.7 mil of water alongside it. If you go from, say, 300 grams of carbs per day to zero, your weight is going to drop off a cliff in the first couple of days. 

Aidan

00:15:09 – 00:15:37

Same thing if you are low carb all the time and you have 300 grams of carbs. One day your weight is going to skyrocket for the 1st week or so, leaving less than a week. But it’s gonna skyrocket over a couple of days, and that’s something to be really, really mindful of when you’re self-experimenting and seeing what works well for you as well, being like we need to factor in the water weight changes when we’re assessing these changes over a longer period of time as well. 

Tyler

00:15:37 – 00:16:18

For sure, it’s, um, it’s definitely one of the main things that people misinterpret about. The ketogenic diet is like this successful weight loss in the initial phases of the diet. Now, a lot of that’s probably not going to be body fat. There’s this confusion that’s just rampant between weight loss and fat loss. Weight loss does not necessarily equate to fat loss, like agents mentioned, you know, like you mentioned, you know, you do have this storage of carbohydrate in the body, so I guess the if you it depends on muscle mass. But say you’re because we work with lifters. Um, so you’re a 90 kilogram male, which is my weight class and say you are 30% body fat, 

Tyler

00:16:18 – 00:16:54

which is, um so, you know, depending on how much muscle mass you have. You do store your carbohydrates in your muscles. Carbohydrates are also stored in the liver. So say you’re storing somewhere between 50-100 grammes of carbohydrate. Is not, you know, a crazy amount to store across all of your muscle mass and in your liver. So it takes about a week or so to fully deplete carbohydrates over that first week in the ketogenic diet. And not only are you depleting that 700 grams of carbohydrate you’re also depleting is a mass school at three times that in water, so 2.1 kg worth of water is gone, plus another 700 grams of carbohydrate. 

Tyler

00:16:55 – 00:17:21

There’s nearly three kilograms down in that first week. Have you lost any body fat in that three kilograms? Not if you haven’t been in a calorie deficit, but you will lose three kilograms on the scales, you know, and that’s just literally stuff that’s being stored in your body. It’s not even body fat at this point, so people are always confusing scale, weight change versus body fat change. And that’s just a very separate concept and something that does play a lot into the ketogenic diet and the weight fluctuations we see with the average person doing it. 

Aidan

00:17:21 – 00:17:31

Yeah, let’s go through some misconceptions. Um, what do you wanna start with? Let’s start with, like, the brain stuff. Do you wanna talk about that? 

Tyler

00:17:31 – 00:17:52

Yeah. So I know I like this just random fact. Um, in as Australian dieticians are, credentials are recognised in America, We can’t just go and directly practice in America, we have to redo various bridging courses. And, um, I believe you still have to do, like, mentoring or into an internship as well before you can become a registered practitioner in America.

Tyler

00:17:53 – 00:18:21

Um, and that comes partly, I think, from some of the differences in the way they look at nutrition. Um in America, for example, they have a recommended daily intake or a minimum recommended intake of carbohydrates per day. Um, as in you should eat this amount of carbohydrates or you are potentially going to develop really have a health consequence. Yeah. Whereas in Australia, carbs are not an essential nutrient. We have essential amino acids are essential proteins. 

Tyler

00:18:21 – 00:19:03

We have essential fatty acids and things like that that we can’t otherwise get without obtaining from the diet. There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate like we touched at the start. The body can make carbohydrates out of other stuff. You’re getting glucose. Your body can break it down. For that. It’s, um so there’s a glycerol molecule that’s kind of attached to triglycerides, which are used to transport fat and store fat. Your body can break down that into essentially glucose as well, so the body can make glucose or essentially make carbohydrates from these other sources. So we don’t class. It here in Australia is essential. Um, now you’ll hear a lot of the reason why the Keto diet is bad is because the brain needs carbs, and there are some parts of the brain that definitely need carbs. 

Tyler

00:19:04 – 00:19:41

Um, but the body can break down those other things into enough carbs to satisfy the brain. There are other parts of the brain and the majority of the brain that can use ketones as an alternative fuel source. So, you know, one of the common misconceptions is that you won’t be able to think as well. There was some sort of cognitive problem or the brain needs sugar or the brain needs carbs. Um, it sort of doesn’t. It can use ketones very effectively, in some cases more effectively. And this is one of the potential mechanisms that is proposed with helping with seizure control. Um, glucose uptake or sugar uptake into the brain could be impacted. So the ketones that allow the brain to have an alternative fuel source? 

Tyler

00:19:41 – 00:19:49

Um so, yeah, there’s no real requirement for the brain to need carbohydrates. And if it does need it, the body can make it to the, I guess, to the volume it needs to for the brain. 

Aidan

00:19:49 – 00:20:31

Yeah, Another thing we want to talk about is, um, diabetes. So Ketoacidosis is something that a lot of people talk about. They talk about people who haven’t really looked into ketosis. Much often will be like well, in type one diabetes. Ketoacidosis is what goes wrong for them, like That’s like if they aren’t having insulin and ketone levels get too high and stuff like that. My understanding is it’s pretty much impossible to do that just through a ketogenic diet. As you said, Like what nobody say like five million per litre Ketones in the blood. Um, even like exogenous ketones, they’ll have, like, a warning label being like, don’t have too many of these. But even if you weren’t like three times, they’re like dosage. You’re probably still not gonna put yourself into that position. Is that right? 

Tyler

00:20:31 – 00:21:01

Yeah. It’s basically the physiology or the path of physiology of ketoacidosis. It kind of can’t be reached by the average healthy person unless you have some sort of problem with, You know, insulin, like production of insulin sensitivity and things like that that we see in diabetics. You can’t over produce ketones to the point where they will become so acidic in the blood that it will cause any damage. So that’s kind of what ketoacidosis is. It’s an unregulated, uncontrolled production of ketones. 

Tyler

00:21:01 – 00:21:28

Ketones are slightly acidic now. The body can balance acidity quite effectively, Um, but if it gets to a point where it’s like vastly too much, um, it does tend to make the blood more acidic. So that’s kind of a problem in diabetics, more so only, and you can’t really reach that through normal physiological levels. Even supplementing like you said, it will be very hard to get up to those uncontrolled amounts of ketones in the blood.

Aidan

00:21:28 – 00:21:40

Yeah and running low on time. And I do want to cover a lot of things. So the next time I want to cover is, like, just like blood lipids, like cholesterol and stuff like that. Um, if you feel like ketogenic diet, is your LDL cholesterol going to increase? Is that a bad thing?

Tyler

00:21:41 – 00:21:49

I think it probably will. I think LDL cholesterol. Well, I think it wouldn’t be a stretch to say it definitely will, because you’re consuming more fat. Yeah, I’ve still seen in some studies a drop if people drop a significant amount of bodyweight still saying that. But I’d say on average, like particularly bodywork didn’t change. 

Tyler

00:21:56 – 00:22:25

Yes. You know, in consuming fat, you’re probably gonna be consuming more dietary cholesterol. Some of that is going to be absorbed. And then, obviously your expression of, um, LDL cholesterol is a transporter for fat around. The body is going to increase potentially depending on the types of fat you’re consuming. Um, so I think overall, your cholesterol probably will increase in the audio will increase. You can obviously, as you just mentioned mitigate that with some weight loss or the types of fats that you’re choosing. 

Tyler

00:22:25 – 00:23:08

So you know, we can look to choose a healthier fat option on a ketogenic diet. We can look to choose lean meats and add healthy fats, things like olive oil and avocados and things like that, which are more, I guess, representative of a healthier cholesterol profile. So those things tend to be associated with an increase or decrease LDL cholesterol. Um, yeah. Exercise is probably gonna play a role as well, which is going to increase your HDL cholesterol? Um, going back to what you asked about. Does it matter? Doesn’t matter. I think it matters if your cholesterol ratio is out of whack. So when we’re looking at cholesterol in the body, we tend to look at the ratio of HDL cholesterol, which is your good cholesterol versus the ratio of bad cholesterol LDL cholesterol. Um, it’s more concerning when those are out of proportion out of balance.

Tyler

00:23:09 – 00:23:53

So I think your total cholesterol is definitely going to go up just because you’re eating more fats and potentially more cholesterol as well through the diet. Is it concerning potentially? Not if it’s you know, still in a healthy ratio. And then the other thing we often sort of talk about when we’re worrying about cholesterol is how much sugar or what’s the blood glucose level? Um, how much sugar is floating around in the bloodstream or glucose floating around the bloodstream? With that cholesterol? We think of sugar as like a highly oxidative molecule. It’s reactive. So when cholesterol becomes a problem is when it becomes oxidised and then starts to form a plaque in your vessels in your blood vessels that hardens and reduces your 

Tyler

00:23:53 – 00:24:15

You know, stiffness or the ability of your blood vessels to adapt to blood flow. Um, and that’s what we call like arteriosclerosis or hardening of the vessels and arteries that tends to be more common in like a Western style diet that’s high sugar, high fat. I think in the absence of extreme amounts of either fat or sugar, it’s probably not going to be as much of an issue. What are your thoughts on that? 

Aidan

00:24:15 – 00:24:21

Explain that last bit again. So you said in the absence. 

Tyler

00:24:21 – 00:24:47

Of course, Keto is an extreme amount of that in the absence of both together. So if you’re having high fat, high sugar. It’s probably going to be a problem if you’re having, you know, a high amount of carbohydrate, a higher amount of high amount of blood glucose. But you have a lower amount of cholesterol in the bloodstream. There’s not as much stuff there for that glucose to oxidise. On the flip side, if you’ve got a high amount of cholesterol but not as much sugar to Oxidise, it is potentially going to be less of an issue too.

Aidan

00:24:47 – 00:25:07

Yeah makes sense, something that I think will be interesting. And I’m not even sure if any of this exist. But, like like long term studies, large groups of federal ketogenic diets measuring cardiovascular disease, risk stuff like that, seeing actual outcomes like saying like, Is this a risk that, like a lot of people are concerned? Is it even a real phenomenon? Is it even like a like, Is it causing issues? 

Tyler

00:25:07 – 00:25:19

Yeah, it’s so hard to, I guess, pull meaningful data from a lot of these studies just based on study design. Um, just through what we would look at is like epidemiological studies. You need so many people to be doing it. 

Tyler

00:25:20 – 00:25:36

Yeah, exactly. and it’s so hard to pull out like specific lifestyle factors. Usually these people are just They get told about an intervention, and then they go away and they do their own thing, and then they come back or somebody checks up on them at a later point in time. But do we know if they were actually doing the diet? 

Aidan

00:25:36 – 00:25:47

That’s a hard thing. Adherence to the ketogenic diet because it is a hard diet and a low percentage of people to adhere to it. Some people, it’s the best thing in the world. Other people just really, really hard like. It’s not a pleasant experience for some people, for sure.

Tyler

00:25:47 – 00:26:05

I’ve had a pretty big range of clients between. Well, actually I’d say the majority don’t like it. But then, you know, you get those people who just swear by it as well, and they love it. So it’s, as always, is going to be individual. Um, and that’s going to come down to adherence as well. 

Aidan

00:26:05 – 00:26:23

So yeah, well, we’ll have to wrap things up there just because of time. So this meant episode. What episode is Episode 28 of the ideal nutrition podcast. So thank you to everybody who’s listening to this one. I enjoyed it. And if you have any feedback or anything like that, please let us.